UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!

[drummerboy_dave]

Originally Posted by DAII

Not say I approve or disagree with the label of cult but rather as long as this is the ideology it will bring opportunity to those that have and will continue to do.

Question: Do those that hand out labels at every opportunity serve God or their agenda?

I don't follow men who subscribe to the type of ideology written in the manifesto. That is each person's responsability to themselves. The choices are well documented and obvious to those who will seek it out. At what point do we pick up and move on?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by DAII

We can have this monergistic and synergistic debate another day, Mizzy ... since you still are shackled by various heretical doctrines ...

I think we can agree on a monergistic source of our Holiness.

But would much rather like to hear more on your thoughts on the article by Fogarty.

These men cringe when they hear their favorite extremist radio talk show blowhard speak of Sharia law in America when they practice a similar code in their churches.

His article was about holiness and that is what I'm addressing. I believe holiness is synergistic because the Bible tells us 1) we are set apart by the Spirit of God 2) We are to pursue holiness and separate ourselves. I understand you think he focuses solely on what we do to "be ye holy, for He is holy" part, but maybe that is the focus of his article. I don't think we can even attempt to be holy without the grace of God in our lives (which is a given since we are his born again children) nor can we live for God without the Spirit of God in us guiding and helping us to mortify our flesh. So, yeah, he left out the work of the Spirit in his article but unless we do our part in the holiness equation, it ain't gonna get done.

You're making alot of accusations against pastors who take their rule to the extreme, imo.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by allstate1

Almost 40 years in a UPC chirch and I have yet to understand how holiness in the Bible means dress code! I read it as meaning a lifestyle!!

Me, too. Our dress may be a part of that lifestyle to a degree. But dress is not holiness in and of itself.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

So, yeah, he left out the work of the Spirit in his article but unless we do our part in the holiness equation, it ain't gonna get done.

He may well think he incorporated the work of the Spirit in his article because God works through preaching. Maybe not... but in my experience there are people who would read that into the article, at least.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by DAII

The labels "cult" and "cultish" will continue to be bandied about as long as this is an acceptable corporate view to holiness.

This is not from an eccentric, rogue evangelist with honorary doctorates from diploma mills and who teaches extra bibilical liturgical practice but the theology of a member/bishop of the inner sanctum.

Then this discussion is about rule within the church of God. Do you think there are saints that God has placed in positions of authority within his body?Would you like to discuss those scriptures or just continue to sling mud?

[drummerboy_dave]

You added this after I responded....

This is not from an eccentric, rogue evangelist with honorary doctorates from diploma mills and who teaches extra bibilical liturgical practice but the theology of a member/bishop of the inner sanctum.

I have a sidenote that some may find interesting. According to my interpetation of the manifesto, an evangelist, (even one with such high credentials TIC), has no authority or authorization to teach "holiness" to any church, yet when someone sells out to the corporate machine, and preaches the "approved doctrine" they are paraded around the country to teach holiness. Maybe some folks need to chew on that for awhile. The contradiction is tremendous!

[Falla39]

[QUOTE=missourimary;940440]Me, too. Our dress may be a part of that lifestyle to a degree. But dress is not holiness in and of itself.QUOTE]

Amen!
Some people do the things they do, because they feel it is
the right thing to do, perhaps to please others.

Others do the things they do, because of who they are!

[drummerboy_dave]

Dan, I hope we can continue our discussion.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Then this discussion is about rule within the church of God. Do you think there are saints that God has placed in positions of authority within his body?Would you like to discuss those scriptures or just continue to sling mud?

Let's discuss God given authority. In fact let's specifically discuss a quote I have heard on here. This quote is very revealing about the fence builder mindset. The quote was something to the effect: "they may can get to heaven by doing that, but they won't in my church." What kind of Christian and what kind of Pastor would refuse someone that God is willing to accept. In fact, we must ask ourselves, has God ever given anyone the authority to reject those whom he is willing to accept?

[drummerboy_dave]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Let's discuss God given authority. In fact let's specifically discuss a quote I have heard on here. This quote is very revealing about the fence builder mindset. The quote was something to the effect: "they may can get to heaven by doing that, but they won't in my church." What kind of Christian and what kind of Pastor would refuse someone that God is willing to accept. In fact, we must ask ourselves, has God ever given anyone the authority to reject those whom he is willing to accept?

Frog, there is a short answer and a longer answer here. The short answer to: "has God ever given anyone the authority to reject those whom he is willing to accept?", based on my view of Romans 14, is no.

Regarding a pastor making a statement like: "they may can get to heaven by doing that, but they won't in my church", I think the instances of that type of statement are probably rare and you're posing of the question is probably more for dramatic effect than substance; albeit it is still a valid question. As someone stated in this thread way earlier, If and when a pastor makes such a stand, it is up to the membership of that church to decide whether they are going to stand with him or not.