UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit! - Page 33

jfrog · #**321** 07-13-2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charnock

"One of the reasons the pastor gave James Driver as grounds to biblically remarry was that James Driver once found his then-wife Angela Driver wearing a bikini at a swimming pool while with the husband of a mutual friend. The pastor felt that constituted exhibitionism and met the biblical definition of fornication, according to the defense summary."

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2010/07/07/1187...#ixzz0tbOgcncY

If your point is that divorce hadn't taken been finalized yet... no one said it had.
If your point is that they were at the pool without any other mutual friends present then you are assuming and not even giving us any reasons for your assumptions.

jfrog · #**322** 07-13-2010, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charnock

The word "found" is interestingly placed.

Not really. Even if he was invited to the pool, as long as he came even a minute later he found her in a bikini while another man was present.

James Griffin · #**323** 07-13-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Good grief, Charnock. I'm not endorsing immodesty. I'm just saying that your wife being immodest isn't reason enough to divorce her. Have you read the story of Hosea and Gomer lately?

Apparently you need to revisit the concept of longterm commitment and keeping your word.

In a day and age of no fault divorce apparently wedding vows mean little.

Even if I walked in and caught my wife in flagrante delicto with some guy I cannot definitely say there would be a divorce. I love her too much. There were be hurt, and maybe it would in fact end up that way, but the thought of divorce would not be the first one, it would be the last. And even then it is doubtful I would be the one to file.

DAII · #**324** 07-13-2010, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Griffin

In a day and age of no fault divorce apparently wedding vows mean little.

Even if I walked in and caught my wife in flagrante delicto with some guy I cannot definitely say there would be a divorce. I love her too much. There were be hurt, and maybe it would in fact end up that way, but the thought of divorce would not be the first one, it would be the last. And even then it is doubtful I would be the one to file.

It's as if finding any shred of indiscretion is what the culture seeks after to justify divorce.

Its a sign of spiritual disease when mixed bathing trumps a lifetime commitment.

I have personal knowledge and close ties regarding another similar case regarding a Georgia UPCI woman who fell in love with a minister and was sharing their relationship and engagement on Everybody's Apostolic ... pictures and all.

The only problem was he was separated with his wife of many years .... leaving her while she was battling cancer ... with no evidence of indiscretion but later threw out accusations in order to justify his mess.

Of course, the wife also on EA found out and was quite shocked.

The wife did contact the woman and her pastor ... and nothing came of it.

Divorce was finalized ... guy got married.

A non-org Apostolic minister engaged before his divorce and relatively not one of his peers bats an eye.

The man also blamed the ex-wife for not having enough faith, or being a true Christian, in dealing with her cancer because she went to the doctor for treatment.

Guy still preaches.

MissBrattified · #**325** 07-13-2010, 04:38 PM

This thread is beginning to feel as if it needs to be merged with the Chauvinism thread. Apostolic women who stick with unbelieving men are praised for their tenacity and their faithful prayers for their non-Christian spouse. I've heard the stories all my life about determined little women who go to church and get beat for it and finally one day the man converts and everyone lives happily ever after.

Apparently Apostolic men are free to (or maybe encouraged to?) divorce their wives if they backslide or become something less than a "real Pentecostal."

Double standard, anyone?

I can't imagine my Dad threatening to leave my Mom for not going to church or wearing a bathing suit. Sorry. As ultra con as he was, he loved her more than anything, and she couldn't do wrong in his eyes. He probably would have chalked it up to a *hot flash*, stomped around the house yelling about it or maybe as a last resort, tried to rebuke the devil out of her, but divorce her? Perish the thought.

I think the problem we're having on this thread is that we don't know that she was ALONE with the friend's husband. There are two different ways to take the statement, but either way you take it, without further evidence, she's guilty of impropriety at worst.

I wonder if the definition of fornication was modified to include "exhibitionism" in order to make the accusation stand. I wonder if Pastor Fogarty had ever included that in the definition before?

mizpeh · #**326** 07-13-2010, 04:40 PM

We can't judge this woman's motives for wearing a bikini. We can surely judge that a bikini is immodest clothing to wear in public but no one can know why she wore it when she did.

Calling it fornication is a joke....a bad joke and a poor excuse used by her ex to remarry.

jfrog · #**327** 07-13-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

This thread is beginning to feel as if it needs to be merged with the Chauvinism thread. Apostolic women who stick with unbelieving men are praised for their tenacity and their faithful prayers for their non-Christian spouse. I've heard the stories all my life about determined little women who go to church and get beat for it and finally one day the man converts and everyone lives happily ever after.

Apparently Apostolic men are free to (or maybe encouraged to?) divorce their wives if they backslide or become something less than a "real Pentecostal."

Double standard, anyone?

I can't imagine my Dad threatening to leave my Mom for not going to church or wearing a bathing suit. Sorry. As ultra con as he was, he loved her more than anything, and she couldn't do wrong in his eyes. He probably would have chalked it up to a *hot flash*, stomped around the house yelling about it or maybe as a last resort, tried to rebuke the devil out of her, but divorce her? Perish the thought.

I think the problem we're having on this thread is that we don't know that she was ALONE with the friend's husband. There are two different ways to take the statement, but either way you take it, without further evidence, she's guilty of impropriety at worst.

I wonder if the definition of fornication was modified to include "exhibitionism" in order to make the accusation stand. I wonder if Pastor Fogarty had ever included that in the definition before?

that is an excellent question!

EDIT: Even more notably is that he adds child abuse to the definition of fornication?

Baron1710 · #**328** 07-13-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

This thread is beginning to feel as if it needs to be merged with the Chauvinism thread. Apostolic women who stick with unbelieving men are praised for their tenacity and their faithful prayers for their non-Christian spouse. I've heard the stories all my life about determined little women who go to church and get beat for it and finally one day the man converts and everyone lives happily ever after.

Apparently Apostolic men are free to (or maybe encouraged to?) divorce their wives if they backslide or become something less than a "real Pentecostal."

Double standard, anyone?

I can't imagine my Dad threatening to leave my Mom for not going to church or wearing a bathing suit. Sorry. As ultra con as he was, he loved her more than anything, and she couldn't do wrong in his eyes. He probably would have chalked it up to a *hot flash*, stomped around the house yelling about it or maybe as a last resort, tried to rebuke the devil out of her, but divorce her? Perish the thought.

I think the problem we're having on this thread is that we don't know that she was ALONE with the friend's husband. There are two different ways to take the statement, but either way you take it, without further evidence, she's guilty of impropriety at worst.

There has always been a double standard.

It isn't the man's fault she was dressed like Jezebel.

I can't tell you the number of times I have heard the ladies of the church warned about what they wear and how it could cause a man to fall.

How about young men guard your minds, stop leering at the ladies.

*AQuietPlace* · #**329** 07-13-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

We can't judge this woman's motives for wearing a bikini. We can surely judge that a bikini is immodest clothing to wear in public but no one can know why she wore it when she did.

Calling it fornication is a joke....a bad joke and a poor excuse used by her ex to remarry.

James Griffin · #**330** 07-13-2010, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Griffin

In a day and age of no fault divorce apparently wedding vows mean little.

Even if I walked in and caught my wife in flagrante delicto with some guy I cannot definitely say there would be a divorce. I love her too much. There were be hurt, and maybe it would in fact end up that way, but the thought of divorce would not be the first one, it would be the last. And even then it is doubtful I would be the one to file.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

This thread is beginning to feel as if it needs to be merged with the Chauvinism thread. Apostolic women who stick with unbelieving men are praised for their tenacity and their faithful prayers for their non-Christian spouse. I've heard the stories all my life about determined little women who go to church and get beat for it and finally one day the man converts and everyone lives happily ever after.

Apparently Apostolic men are free to (or maybe encouraged to?) divorce their wives if they backslide or become something less than a "real Pentecostal."

Double standard, anyone?

Is that broad brush or are you implying I am not an Apostolic man?