Can Women Pastor ?

[Sister Alvear]

Would you have helped Deborah in battle?

[Sister Alvear]

I doubt it...you would have tried to explain it away...

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

"PHILIP THE EVANGELIST HAD FOUR DAUGHTERS, VIRGINS, WHICH DID PROPHESY" (Acts xxi. 9). FROM EUSEBIUS, THE ANCIENT ECCLESIASTICAL HISTORIAN, WE LEARN THAT PHILIP'S DAUGHTERS LIVED TO A GOOD OLD AGE, ALWAYS ABOUNDING IN THE WORK OF THE LORD. "MIGHTY LUMINARIES," HE WRITES, "HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP IN ASIA. PHILIP, AND TWO OF HIS VIRGIN DAUGHTERS, SLEEP AT HIERAPOLIS; THE OTHER, AND THE BELOVED DISCIPLE, JOHN, REST AT EPHESUS."

"And I entreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the Gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellow-labourers (Phil. iv. 3).

This is a recognition of female labourers, not concerning the Gospel but in the Gospel, whom Paul classes with Clement, and other his fellow-labourers. Precisely the same terms are applied to Timotheus, whom Paul styles a "minister of God, and his fellow-labourer in the Gospel of Christ" (I Thess. iii. 2).

Gotta' run, but just saw this. My wife is also my "fellow-labourer in the Gospel," but she obeys I Tim. 2 also! This was the same Paul who wrote the very clear commands of I Tim. 2 & I Cor. 14!

Besides, I love how one has to appeal outside of the text [as in the case of Eusebius, who wrote around 300 A.D.??], since the women preacher in the church doctrine cannot be found w/on the text itself!

Hmmm, if one has to go outside the boundaries of Scripture to read into the Scripture what's not there.......................

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

You would be speechless...We all believe in 1 Tim and 1 Cor....

I doubt it Sis., but believe what you will! I'm sticking w/ the Bible, you can stick w/ Bro. Scheels! And if you beleived I Tim. 2 & I Cor. 14, you would then obey it & not fight it!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

THE WORD RENDERED HELPERS MEANS A FELLOW-LABOURER, ASSOCIATE, COADJUTOR, WORKING TOGETHER, AN ASSISTANT, A JOINT LABOURER, A COLLEAGUE. IN THE NEW TESTAMENT SPOKEN ONLY OF A COWORKER, HELPER IN A CHRISTIAN WORK, THAT IS OF CHRISTIAN TEACHERS. HOW CAN THESE TERMS, WITH ANY SHOW OF CONSISTENCY, BE MADE TO APPLY MERELY TO THE EXERCISE OF HOSPITALITY TOWARDS THE APOSTLE, OR THE DUTY OF PRIVATE VISITATION. TO BE A PARTNER, COADJUTOR, OR JOINT WORKER WITH A PREACHER OF THE GOSPEL, MUST BE SOMETHING MORE THAN TO BE HIS WAITING-MAID.

Again, "Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord" (Rom. xvi. 12). Dr. Clarke, on this verse, says, "Many have spent much useless labour in endeavouring to prove that these women did not preach. That there were prophetesses as well as prophets in the Church we learn, and that a woman might pray or prophesy provided that she had her head covered we know; and, according to St. Paul (I Cor. xiv. 3), whoever prophesied spoke unto others to edification, exhortation, and comfort, and that no preacher can do more every person must acknowledge. Because, to edify, exhort, and comfort, are the prime ends of the Gospel ministry. If women thus prophesied, then women preached."

So, I give the Lexical definition of the term "Helper," & this is all you can do????

And, so sad for Dr. Clark, since his doctrine is not stated in the text itself. So everyone who "labors in the Lord," is now in the 5-fold ministry???? Think I'll believe the Bible [including, not excluding I Tim. 2], you can believe Dr. Clark!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Have you obeyed Acts 2:45? Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need...

What in the world does this have to do w/ Paul's clear commands to the church in I Tim. 2???????????????

[Sister Alvear]

would you have recieved the revelation that Jesus arose from a woman?
If you will not listen to a woman now you would not have listened to one back in those days...lol...Brother you need to be honest with yourself...
Have you ever read a book by a woman? Sang a song a woman wrote? Many women helped translating many things into English...YOU learn everyday from women...you might as well confess....

We are all workers together with HIM...He choses not me or you...

Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ...

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I doubt it...you would have tried to explain it away...

There would be nothing to "explain away" [as you try to do w/ I Tim. 2 & I Cor. 14, by the way], since she was not a NT preacher, or even an OT preacher, for that matter. But since you apparently believe that she was, you should have no problem providing us w/ an example of her delivering a Scriptural exposition to men:____________?

[Sister Alvear]

I am sticking with the word of God...lol...

If commentators had dealt with the Bible, on other subjects as they have dealt with it on this, taking isolated passages, separated from their explanatory connections, and insisting on a literal interpretation of the words of our version, what errors and contradictions would have been forced upon the acceptance of the Church, and what terrible results would have accrued to the world. On this principle the Universalist will have all men unconditionally saved, because the Bible says "Christ is the Saviour of all men," etc. The Antinomian, according to this rule of interpretation, has most unquestionable foundation for his dead faith and hollow profession, seeing that St. Paul declares over and over again that men are "saved by faith and not by works." The Unitarian, also, in support of that soul-withering doctrine, triumphantly refers to numerous passages which, taken alone, teach only the humanity of Jesus. In short, "there is no end to the errors in faith and practice which have resulted from taking isolated passages, wrested from their proper connections, or the light thrown upon them by other Scriptures, and applying them to sustain a favourite theory." Judging from the blessed results which have almost invariably followed the ministrations of women in the cause of Christ, we fear it will be found, in the great day of account, that a mistaken and unjustifiable application of the passage, "Let your women keep silence in the Churches," has resulted in more loss to the Church, evil to the world, and dishonour to God, than any of the errors we have already referred to. (CB)

and of course Judas went out and hanged himself....do thou likewise...

Hide the ropes...lol...

Scripture taken out of context is worse than no scripture at all...

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

would you have recieved the revelation that Jesus arose from a woman?
If you will not listen to a woman now you would not have listened to one back in those days...lol...Brother you need to be honest with yourself...
Have you ever read a book by a woman? Sang a song a woman wrote? Many women helped translating many things into English...YOU learn everyday from women...you might as well confess....

We are all workers together with HIM...He choses not me or you...

Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ...

And you need to be honest w/ I Tim. 2 & I Cor. 14. Writing something down, telling someone about Christ, is NOT the same thing as delivering a sermon to the public assembly of saints, "you might as well confess". Sheesh........................