Can Women Pastor ?

[Aquila]

I also think there's a disconnect between what it means to "Pastor". Most invision it as being the CEO or head spiritual authority over a congregation meeting in a church building who is licensed with an organization and who lives off tithes and offerings, etc.

Biblically, that's not a "pastor". The ministry of a "pastor" is a ministry that functions within the body. A "pastor" is one who guides believers and leads them in the way more perfectly. Many operate in the ministry of "pastor" though they are not officially "Pastors" according to our modern definitions. Women in the early church were to guide and teach young ladies to manage the home and be holy women... this is a form of "pastoral" ministry. Today we have let the "pastoral" ministry of the body fall to the wayside in exchange for the office of pastor with one expected to perform pastoral ministry. As a result of this glorification of office, the rest of the five fold ministry has often been neglected within the body or expected to be operated by again a single man holding an office.

[Nitehawk013]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I also think there's a disconnect between what it means to "Pastor". Most invision it as being the CEO or head spiritual authority over a congregation meeting in a church building who is licensed with an organization and who lives off tithes and offerings, etc.

Biblically, that's not a "pastor". The ministry of a "pastor" is a ministry that functions within the body. A "pastor" is one who guides believers and leads them in the way more perfectly. Many operate in the ministry of "pastor" though they are not officially "Pastors" according to our modern definitions. Women in the early church were to guide and teach young ladies to manage the home and be holy women... this is a form of "pastoral" ministry. Today we have let the "pastoral" ministry of the body fall to the wayside in exchange for the office of pastor with one expected to perform pastoral ministry. As a result of this glorification of office, the rest of the five fold ministry has often been neglected within the body or expected to be operated by again a single man holding an office.

Preach! Preach!!!

[Sister Alvear]

God needs us all to make His earthly body complete...however many feel that they are on some superior turf...when it all boils down we are just servants...

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Wow
Do you take every word that comes from your pastor as word of God? I take the whole word as Gods word but I don't take mans teachings as Gods word. My bible tells me to seak out my own salvation... And I don't read into the word what I want to, in order to support my own teachings. I Timothy 2:12 is not a command Paul says I suffer not

Please understand what I am saying here, Customs of that day did not allow for a women to teach/preach etc. woman were little more than a mans property. Further more Paul is comfirming the order God placed down for the home. This does not mean God cannot or will not use a woman to preach/pastor. I never said it was the way it should be, but it is the way it can be. Here is the bottom line if there is a church that is pastored by a women and you don't feel it is right go somewhere else. I mean good grief do you think God only has one group of beleivers is a town or his spirit only works with one group?
Personaly I like the church that have a husband and wife team co pastors. Now the woman has become what God intended from the begining t be her husbands help meet.
I will say this in the district I carried license in there was a woman pastor, she and her husband were ministers. He was actualy the district supperintendant for several years. She was never out of submition to her husband. What say ye.

Actually there is sufficient evidence to prove that the 1st Century in these areas was possibly more egalitarian than even the modern world. I've read that recently. Point being, I wonder how much of a true vacuum there really is between our prejudices concerning women today as compared to yesterday.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

And yes it is ok for a man to wear a dress if that is the custom of that country. As for a women being used in the office of ministry again I repeat Paul was not giving a commandment even though he refers to creation, he is establidhing a precedent for his day. When women were not allowed to handle teaching. This does not by any means mean that God cannot use a women to preach or teach. I again repeat that the authority of the ministry is not that of a ruler as most denominations teach. The office of the preist hood is no longer in effect. Jesus is our high preist now The ministry is for edification and helps to the church that the church can do the work of the ministry.
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the equipping of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: njkv

Where do we get the idea that the ministry is some high faulting position that has all this great amount of authority. The ministry is given as a gift just as the gifts of the spirit.
Note the verses below Peter does not address the ministry or even pastors he addresses elders.

1Pe 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
1Pe 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
1Pe 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
1Pe 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
1Pe 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

So a "I don't permit/allow" is to not be taken seriously because it didn't say "Thus Saith the LORD?"

And what is your response to Paul's appeal to creation (which supersedes even the law)?

Re Eph 4, I believe we've interacted on that in a separate thread. Sticking to women in ministry.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Ok why would Paul write about women being silent in the church,and yet give instruction in 1 Corinthians about sisters prophesying in the church ?

He obviously was okay with them participating in the spiritual gifts during public worship, but he took issue with them having authority over a man.

I think your point is great. Interesting how his supposed prohibition in 1 Cor contradicts his assumed permission in 1 Cor 11. I agree with many scholars that this particular verse in Corinthians does not fit context, does not sound Pauline and most likely was inserted later by someone else. Either way, let scripture interpret scripture. Point being, it must be okay for women to have a role in public worship. The debate centers around what further role they would have in the church.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

...
I think your point is great. Interesting how his supposed prohibition in 1 Cor contradicts his assumed permission in 1 Cor 11. I agree with many scholars that this particular verse in Corinthians does not fit context, does not sound Pauline and most likely was inserted later by someone else. Either way, let scripture interpret scripture. Point being, it must be okay for women to have a role in public worship. The debate centers around what further role they would have in the church.

It is my understanding that that passage, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 is a quote that some in the Corinthian church had used taken from the Jewish oral law/tradition that said a woman could not speak in the synagogue/assembly, and they were trying to keep women silent in church. Paul quotes it back to them and then says, "What?" and goes on to say "are you giving me the Word or am I giving you the Word?" In other words, are you the apostle? or are you the ones speaking by inspiration? Then he goes on to say that if anyone is spiritual let him acknowledge that what I am writing is from the Lord. Then he goes on and instructs them (both women and men) to covet to prophesy and don't try to hinder them from speaking with tongues (as long as it is within the guidelines that he had given).

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by rdp

Pls. provide the Scripture where a woman EVER preached to a church congregation:_______________?

So if my wife & I had a church meeting weekly in our house, I suppose that she's automatically a "minister/preacher"???????????? Unreal how folks will go to any extreme to force their pre-conceived notions into the literal text, which NEVER states the same. Ever heard of an "Argument from Silence"?

I'm plumb astounded that women preachers would appeal to Acts 8, since it plainly says that the women were "in prison"!!!! How could they "WENT everywhere preaching" from a prison cell???????????????? The verse in question grammatically points back to vs. 1 {& this is about the 3rd time that I've dealt w/ this now}.

Regarding Sis. Alvear, I've repeatedly said that I honor her sacrifice wholly & respect her for it [& have even contributed to their cause]. However, this does necessitate an endorsement of her 'preaching.' It's one thing to honor the persons sacrifices, yet quite another to agree w/ their every doctrine. When it comes to the women preacher issue, I whole-heartedly disagree & can demonstrate so Biblically. But, I still respect her for the sacrifices that she's made. Blessings................

What does the Deaconess do in Romans 16? You never responded to Sam.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by LadyRev

For each and every one of you that don't believe in women preachers and/or pastors there is at least one person that disagrees with your view and DOES believe in women preachers and/or pastors.

There are MALE PASTORS and other MALE leaders that disagree with you and can show scripture to support their views just as you claim to have scripture to support your views.

My former and current pastor are just two of many that do believe in women pastors and/or preachers.

The leadership of the UPCI determined long ago that God does indeed call women to preach and/or pastor. Thats a large group of MEN that determined this.

Do you really think all these men are so STUPID while you are so SMART?

Get over yourselves.

This is a horrible way to approach a biblical discussion. There are men smarter than me that are wrong, and men smarter than me that are right. Their "intelligence" is never the standard for a biblical discussion. Silliness, I tell you!

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

You need to show where:

1. Sharing scripture is preaching.

2. Speaking from scripture is a sermon.

3. Where women are excluded from obeying Matt 28:19 when 1 Timothy 3:16 says that ALL scripture is for EVERYONE, not for men and women to pick and choose which applies to them.

However, there are several examples where women prophesying became scripture. Several. Has anything you ever spoke became scripture???

You need to explain Paul's several explicit prohibitions. What do they mean to you?