Can Women Pastor ?

[Jeffrey]

Thanks, Sister Alvear. I couldn't follow your responses to the three directives from Paul completely. But you gave me an idea.

[Sister Alvear]

sorry...I have so little time...I do believe in headship however headship did not begin in the Cor. church...the man became the head only after the fall...not before...In the old testament both Deborah and HULDA were married yet both were used as the voice of God to a people...that does not mean they were ruling their husbands...

If they had been OUT of their place God would have never sent the revival to the LEVITICAL PREISTHOOD OR CURSED MEROZ FOR NOT HELPING DEBORAH IN BATTLE.

[Trouvere]

Sister Alvear you were sent. Thankfully you obeyed or today you would be leading a life most miserable.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Actually, the word "prophesy" in Paul's letters is "inspired utterances or speech," but could possibly mean preaching, since that's an inspired proclamation. There are many who believed "I desire that all prophesy" is not Paul's admonishment that everyone should have the gift to prophesy, but that all should proclaim/preach/tell.

Paul doesn't say a "sermon from the Scriptures," so our discussion should center around what he actually said. "Teach," "speaking," (we must know what that means, because obviously women can speak at church), usurp authority, etc...

Actually, the word "prophesy" is literally defined as primarily "to foretell," w/ "forthtelling" as a secondary possibility hinged upon context. But, whether foretelling, or forthtelling, it's always executed in a spontaneous manner, as opposed to a pre-arranged scriptural discourse as we observe in the churches today [not myself, since I would leave if a woman stood up to break the Word of God to a church congregation].

Teaching is usually expounding from the Scriptures in a church setting, which is what Paul was dealing w/ in I Tim. 2, I Cor. 14. So, the discussion DOES center around what Paul said.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Strange is the story of Hulda where both king and priests listen as she says, THUS SAITH THE LORD... many so called men would have turned her off before she uttered the word of the LORD...

Pls. provide for us where Huldah expounded from the Scriptures to men, even though the Law was right there in their hands:______________?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

In Micah 6:4 we have this language.--"For I brought thee up out of the land of Egypt and redeemed thee out of the house of servants: and sent before thee Moses, Aaron, and Miriam." Miriam, without doubt was one of the divinely appointed leaders of the children of Israel, and closely associated with her brothers in both civil and ecclesiastical authority. For the record says "I have sent before thee Moses, Aaron and Miriam."

And the Bible says that "the women went after her" in the song of Moses...not the men, who were right there on the spot! Pls. tell us why the Bible records specifically that "the women went after her" if she was leading men? Besides, was she a "Bible preacher"...since that's the topic?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

NOT ONLY DID MIRIAM sing and dance with the ladies she is called a Prophetess
Sanballat said to Nehemiah, "Thou hast also appointed Prophets to preach of thee at Jerusalem." Then according to Sanballat,t he first thing a Prophet is to do, is to preach for some one having been appointed to do so.
I Cor. 14:3,4, we have this concerning the work of a Prophet, "But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation and comfort: But he that prophesieth edifieth the church."

Sounds like women were doing a little more than serving tea or knitting...even in a world that did not value women....

The definition of a Prophetess is defined as a "Prophet's wife, an inspired woman, or a poetess." Where's the meaning of "preacher/teacher" in this word:_________? And, was Miriam a "Bible Preacher"?

I Cor. 14 is contextually dealing w/ the gifts of the Spirit, not sermons from the Bible, which is not the Biblical definition of prophecy.

Besides, I've asked you before, & got no answer, so I'll try again. What do you do w/ I Tim. 2:11-14, I Cor. 14:34? Does it mean what it says?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Well...I don't like to get involved in endless discussions however I personally believe Tim. was addressing THE WIFE of THE MAN...that is a homelife context...
I believe Cor. was due to a question or letter Paul had recieved otherwise he would be wrong having women that prophecy with him for prophecy IS FOR THE CHURCH...THE CHURCH INCLUDES BOTH SEXES...however those on this forum that know me KNOW I PERSONALLY SHY AWAY FROM PLATFORMS but I strongly believe women have a place in ministry...
I do not believe GOD lied to me calling me to be a missionary and then will send me to hell for obeying his call. I was woke up by him when I was 8 years old and HE called...it was not the type my dad was a preacher so he called me to ministry,,,my dad was a drunk...I don't ever even remember seeing or knowing what a missionary was...and not only did HE wake me up HE told me I would be a missionary to Brazil and that is where I have spent the last 41 years of my life...

I humbly say that thousands of souls will stand with me in judgement saved because I obeyed...
I know what it is to be laughed at, made fun of because of the calling of God...but HIS call means more to me than any other thing...I have never lost the wonder that He would call a little green eyed girl from Arkansas to play a part in reaching the world with His gospel.

I Tim. explicitly states that Paul wrote the letter "so that you may know how to behave yourself in the house of God, which is the CHURCH...." Respectfully Sis. Alvear [& I mean that sincerely} you're imposing your own notion into the text.

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by rdp

I Tim. explicitly states that Paul wrote the letter "so that you may know how to behave yourself in the house of God, which is the CHURCH...." Respectfully Sis. Alvear [& I mean that sincerely} you're imposing your own notion into the text.

I would think the other way around...but I AM NOT ONE TO ARGUE THE POINT....
I do not think you have written all I have said over the yers about women in ministry...and yes, maybe not on this thread but on hundreds of threads over the years I have answered...you may not have read it...

Anyway...rejoice...I just walked in the door and sat down here...tonight I was asked to teach a mormon family, a baptist family and a catholic family why we baptize in JESUS NAME... glad I accepted for they all asked to be baptized after class...I did not do the work...God did...so rejoice...for more names will be written in the book of heaven...

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

In Psalms 68:11 reads the inspired Hebrew, as testified to by Dr. Clark, and the revised version:--"The Lord gave the word, and great was the army of those women that preached it."

The TANAKH: "God gives the command for war, and women announce good news of God's victory." It then references Ex. 15:20 [Miriam leading the WOMEN w/ the timbrel]. Moreover, the reputable translations are divided as to whether the word should be translated as "women" or simply "company". Thus, no solid case can be made that the text should literally read "women".

But see the NLT: "The LORD announces victory, and throngs of women shout the news." Where's a NT woman preacher in this text? Besides, we're dealing w/ the NT church economy today, not the OT Law. It would be extremely faulty scholarship to employ an OT passage to overthrow the myriad of NT instructions to the church [Epistemological Flaw, I Tim. 2:11-15, etc.].