How close should a pastor get to the members?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Prax,

I think Pastors put themselves in the position to be the all knowing and only counsel. I think many times they think more highly of themselves than is their calling. They are not the voice of God but merely fallible men who are called to teach, preach, and exhort. Many times there is too much enmeshment of the Pastor/leadership into the private affairs of the church people. It is comparable to spiritual incest.

JMHO,
Rhoni

P.S. I do agree with your post. Thank you.

They can be the voice of God though. But honestly when it comes to hearing from God they are not the only ones that do or can.

I don't think there is anything wrong with counselors working in the church, be it a professional one from where you come from or another person in the church with a lot of wisdom and experience. In fact I think it is better as the word says...there is safety.

I don't care for a lot of "designations" the psychology "industry" has made over the years as far as what is a mental illness etc etc and especially the over perscription of meds, but at the same time they are trained to listen and help and resolve conflicts. That's a good thing.

[2020Vision]

The Word of God has answers to every possible circumstance we could encounter.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

I'll have to take your word for it that this goes on. I've never seen it, but then again I live on the sane side of the 48th paralell.

The only purchase advice that a pastor ever gave me was once when my pastor helped me buy a used Remington 742 semi-automatic .308 with a nice Bushnell scope. I later sold it, but I shouldn't have; it was too nice a gun to be without.

Maple Leaf,

You have been fortunate. I could tell you stories. There are many things I would never discuss on this forum, and too many things I have openly discussed in the hope it will help others to know they are more 'normal' than they think.

Respectfully,
Rhoni

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

I'll have to take your word for it that this goes on. I've never seen it, but then again I live on the sane side of the 48th paralell.

The only purchase advice that a pastor ever gave me was once when my pastor helped me buy a used Remington 742 semi-automatic .308 with a nice Bushnell scope. I later sold it, but I shouldn't have; it was too nice a gun to be without.

Nice.... 742. Should have prayed about that decision!

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

The Word of God has answers to every possible circumstance we could encounter.

So when I am having car problems do I just open the pages up to the Book of Autozone?

What the Word say if an older (or younger!) married couple went to the pastor because he was suffering from E.D.?

I agree that there are principles in the Word that can be applied toward virtually any issue that could come up, but sometimes it just helps to know someone who has experience or training.....

In fact, the Word itself says this about the elders! Why? Because they may have faced the same issue(s) that you have. A pastor cannot have experience in everything and those who think they do, need to be avoided at all cost.

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Maple Leaf,

Everything you have posted here - I thoroughly agree with! I went into Marriage and Family Therapy for the exact reasons. I do not like working with the chronically mentally ill, but those who need conflict resolution, developmental issues in dealing with teens, and marriage enrichment including pre-marital counseling. I do not believe psychology has many answers - I believe Christ is the answer for the world's problems. I do believe presentation as well as technique used, is everything.

Respectfully,
Rhoni

Working with the chronically mentally ill is heart breaking, but, for true aggravation, I think that personality disorders win hands down.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

The Word of God has answers to every possible circumstance we could encounter.

If by the "word of God" you mean Jesus, than I heartily agree. (If you are referring to a book, then not so much )

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

Working with the chronically mentally ill is heart breaking, but, for true aggravation, I think that personality disorders win hands down.

Absolutely - especially Borderlines.

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

So when I am having car problems do I just open the pages up to the Book of Autozone?

What the Word say if an older (or younger!) married couple went to the pastor because he was suffering from E.D.?

I agree that there are principles in the Word that can be applied toward virtually any issue that could come up, but sometimes it just helps to know someone who has experience or training.....

In fact, the Word itself says this about the elders! Why? Because they may have faced the same issue(s) that you have. A pastor cannot have experience in everything and those who think they do, need to be avoided at all cost.

I would direct the car questions to this Scripture from the Book of Hezekiah: "My son, attend to my words and gain understanding, if the Lord thy God, the Creator and sustainer of the starry heavens and of the orbiting earth, hath given thee two clues, use them."

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I understand what you are trying to say. We shouldn't need secular counselors. Our society today is very complex. The things we deal with are very complex.

Pastors are meant to lead the church as a whole. I don't know that the word says the one Pastor over a church is supposed to be the counselor for every member of the church. Being a Pastor does not necessarily qualify someone to give counsel in areas other than spiritual counseling. But if the church was full of honorable people you can trust, you should be able to find counsel in the church. The church is or should be full of a vast group of individuals with a lot of experience and wisdom to help others....

A Pastor can be a counselor like that but that is not necessarily what they are called to do as a Pastor nor does being a pastor necessarily give them all the answers to every little problem other than spiritual ones.

And frankly, if the Pastor is such a busy man, why not have others in the church that can do that kind of stuff to release the Pastor to doing other things?

In the church there should be elders to do this sort of thing, not just one man

Pro 11:14 Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety.

1Pe 5:5 Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."

There are people in our midst that are more qualified to give answers to certain issues in life that might be just one Pastor...or that Pastor might be just as qualified, but I don't think it should all be put on one person alone especially when his calling is more to lead the church as a whole in spiritual matters and direction

Excellent post, Prax!!!!!