How close should a pastor get to the members?

[Indy]

Originally Posted by Amos

Yeah, those rotten pastors...hypocrites.

Dirty saps.

Prax, your posts reflect some of the nastiest attitudes on a consistent basis that I run into on this forum.

Your posts often come across as insufferably arrogant and know-it-all.

Just thought I would mention that.

I think you just hit yourself with another rock intended for another! You need to think more before you post. I guess you don't see it yourslef...........WOW!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

You've said a lot and I apologize in advance that I can't address all of this.
To be clear, I don't believe in "ignorantly" following anyone. When I used the word "ignorance", I was referring to my preference of being ignorant to my pastor's flaws, we notice enough of them as it is. It's like a dad that tells his kids every single gross tale of his sinful past. That's not my idea of child raising. Regarding the sheep, I think it's perhaps over-used, but nevertheless it's there in print. A beautiful analogy to me. I don't think people are dumb. I reject that notion. True sheep can be stupid, and we can be stupid sometimes too. We all can. Also, because I don't know him on a friendship level doesn't mean I don't know him. My pastor is a man of his word, cordial, patient, endearing, wise, longsuffering, bold, fearless, etc I know him very well. I respect him. There's no need for me to change that relationship because I fear he thinks he's better than me. He doesn't feel that way. But he embraces his role.

The Sons of Korah saw Moses was "just a man like they are too", and used that fact to feed a deep-seeded rebellion. Regarding friends as saints, I think we should stick to referencing those we lead. It's not being truthful to say it's easier to lead friends or family members. It's 10 times harder. Even in leadership at my level.

I never said anyone NEEDS to know every thing the Pastor has ever done or has done wrong. The issue is whether or not the Pastor can get close to the members or a member of the church as opposed to other Pastors.

In that vein of thought I also point out we should not be ignorant to view the Pastor as infallible.

Second the "Sons of Korah"...where does the bible say they're problem was that they only saw Moses as a man like they are? That was not their problem. They were rebellious in heart. That would be just an excuse.

And if you read what I posted I never suggested treating of viewing the Pastor in terms of him being Just a man. I said there is the office and there is the man. You respect the office and you can respect the man too. Men are fallable.

There is nothing in the bible that teaches that the ROLE of the Pastor necessitates the man never having as a friend a non-Pastor.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

Prax, did you have prior issues with a former pastor, family member, etc? Or are you in a situation where you wish you were closer to your pastor? Curious.

Huh? See this is where the last discussion got off...trying to make this personal. This is kinda weird when I just got finished saying how my pastor is a friend to me. Are you really reading what I say? Are you assuming something and reading it into my posts?

Im addressing an issue.... That ISSUE is the topic "How close should a pastor get to the members" and in some of what has been said and some of what I have heard and see over the course of 20 years it can appear to be a class issue.

I have an opinion on the topic. I don't see the scriptures supporting the notion that a Pastor can't be close to a saint

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I never said anyone NEEDS to know every thing the Pastor has ever done or has done wrong. The issue is whether or not the Pastor can get close to the members or a member of the church as opposed to other Pastors.

In that vein of thought I also point out we should not be ignorant to view the Pastor as infallible.

Second the "Sons of Korah"...where does the bible say they're problem was that they only saw Moses as a man like they are? That was not their problem. They were rebellious in heart. That would be just an excuse.

And if you read what I posted I never suggested treating of viewing the Pastor in terms of him being Just a man. I said there is the office and there is the man. You respect the office and you can respect the man too. Men are fallable.

There is nothing in the bible that teaches that the ROLE of the Pastor necessitates the man never having as a friend a non-Pastor.

You seem to insist on the importance of the pastor's fallibility being recognized. Sons of Korah's words to Moses were precisely about him just being a man. You're right, they used it as an excuse. Prax, I this isn't a hell/heaven opinion we are debating, but I just think the wisest thing is not to be buddies with those you lead. It's a lesson learned the hard way by many idealists.

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Huh? See this is where the last discussion got off...trying to make this personal. This is kinda weird when I just got finished saying how my pastor is a friend to me. Are you really reading what I say? Are you assuming something and reading it into my posts?

Im addressing an issue.... That ISSUE is the topic "How close should a pastor get to the members" and in some of what has been said and some of what I have heard and see over the course of 20 years it can appear to be a class issue.

I have an opinion on the topic. I don't see the scriptures supporting the notion that a Pastor can't be close to a saint

Just was curious as to how the topic even came up. Don't you ever get curious? Sorry to offend you.

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Huh? See this is where the last discussion got off...trying to make this personal. This is kinda weird when I just got finished saying how my pastor is a friend to me. Are you really reading what I say? Are you assuming something and reading it into my posts?

Im addressing an issue.... That ISSUE is the topic "How close should a pastor get to the members" and in some of what has been said and some of what I have heard and see over the course of 20 years it can appear to be a class issue.

I have an opinion on the topic. I don't see the scriptures supporting the notion that a Pastor can't be close to a saint

I'm reading your posts very carefully. I didn't think I was being abrasive.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

You seem to insist on the importance of the pastor's fallibility being recognized.

I seem to....what I am saying is we keep in perspective that the Pastor is still a man, like you and I. That a person becomes a Pastor does not change him as a man. That was the mistake the Roman Catholics made with the Pope. Many become disillusioned when they realize he was not fallable after all.

I never said the saints need to know what is in his closet

Sons of Korah's words to Moses were precisely about him just being a man. You're right, they used it as an excuse. Prax, I this isn't a hell/heaven opinion we are debating, but I just think the wisest thing is not to be buddies with those you lead. It's a lesson learned the hard way by many idealists.

I disagree. I think what makes or breaks it is not whether someone is a pastor or not, for even having a friend that is a pastor can be problematic.

Let me ask, would you think it is ok for a pastor to have as a friend a non-pastor from another church since he is not leading him?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

I'm reading your posts very carefully. I didn't think I was being abrasive.

Again, I didn't say you were being abrasive.....

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

Just was curious as to how the topic even came up. Don't you ever get curious? Sorry to offend you.

You'd have to ask MOW and then others that contributed. What I post comes up in response to the topic MOW started and what others have posted.

[Praxeas]

BTW you didn't offend me. I would just rather keep it non-personal