How close should a pastor get to the members?

[StillStanding]

A pastor shouldn't get so close to a member that he tells a dirty joke!!!

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

What do you use as a "test" for something working or not?

To begin with I don't expect a Pastor to be close "friends" with every saint...Im not close friends with every saint. But that does not mean a Pastor can't have friends among the saints just as he has that are Pastors.

Im not sure what "works" means to you.

I know Leadership. I've never had to act or treat myself above or them below in order to do that. In fact to me a Leader should be a facilitater...someone that is molding other leaders and growing them into maturity.

I consider my pastor a very good friend of mine. In fact I consider at least two Pastors to be good friends of mine that we can and do discuss personal matters. I have never lost sight of the fact that both men were still Pastors in all that. And they never treat me any different.

Any person, be it Pastor or not, is going to have to choose friends wisely, be they Pastors or non-Pastors. Who you can trust is not about what position you hold

Then you run into "favorites" allegations, having to admonish a friend, rather than a saint, etc... If you think you can do it, great. But leadership manuals from people like Fred Foster, John Maxwell, and many others on this topic, tend to (as a majority) favor the more traditional role, while improving the relationships within that model. There is a respect that comes with our elders, as well as our pastor. He has to be accountable for me, and I'd hate for our personal relationship to affect that. That said, I have a very close relationship with my pastor, though we are not buddies like the rest of my guy friends. It's a unique relationship, that always defers to him in categories of respect.

[sbo1971]

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway

A pastor shouldn't get so close to a member that he tells a dirty joke!!!

Shouldn't be telling them anyway.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

Then you run into "favorites" allegations, having to admonish a friend, rather than a saint, etc... If you think you can do it, great.

Why not? Do Pastors ever admonish one another? Do Pastors have accountability? They look to other Elders right? Do they have a friendship relationship too? I can and have admonished friends that were also saints. Nothing works perfect. Even in the non-personal friendship approach if you admonish a saint there are going to be those that reject it.

But leadership manuals from people like Fred Foster, John Maxwell, and many others on this topic, tend to (as a majority) favor the more traditional role, while improving the relationships within that model.

Describe the traditional role to me please.

There is a respect that comes with our elders, as well as our pastor.

There is or should be a certain amount of respect for those positions, but then again since there are conditions for even being an Elder or Pastor that respect is earned.

At the same time Saints should be respected too and there are many saints that , without having been given a title, fit the conditions of an Elder or even a Pastor and in their own way they often minister like one to other saints individually.

He has to be accountable for me, and I'd hate for our personal relationship to affect that. That said, I have a very close relationship with my pastor, though we are not buddies like the rest of my guy friends. It's a unique relationship, that always defers to him in categories of respect.

I'd think that if my Pastor can't tell me honestly he thinks there is something wrong in my life or whatever, then there was a problem to begin with in our friendship/relationship. A good friend, if he thinks there is a problem, is going to tell you.

[ChTatum]

Originally Posted by Charnock

It's been fun folks.

Movie time.

See ya.

Yep, tuck tail time.

May God bless, keep, and deliver you.

And should He call you to pastor, bless you with a thick skin.

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Why not? Do Pastors ever admonish one another? Do Pastors have accountability? They look to other Elders right? Do they have a friendship relationship too? I can and have admonished friends that were also saints. Nothing works perfect. Even in the non-personal friendship approach if you admonish a saint there are going to be those that reject it.


Describe the traditional role to me please.


There is or should be a certain amount of respect for those positions, but then again since there are conditions for even being an Elder or Pastor that respect is earned.

At the same time Saints should be respected too and there are many saints that , without having been given a title, fit the conditions of an Elder or even a Pastor and in their own way they often minister like one to other saints individually.


I'd think that if my Pastor can't tell me honestly he thinks there is something wrong in my life or whatever, then there was a problem to begin with in our friendship/relationship. A good friend, if he thinks there is a problem, is going to tell you.

Well I suppose that's the messy part. Having idealistic hopes about "friendship" and the way people should act. Our pastor loves the saints and we have no question about that. We've even been over for dinner several times. We love each other. He respects me. In our flesh we want to quote the US Consitution and say "you're an equal", and at the foot of the cross he is, but in his role, I look to him, not at him. There still is a line that is never crossed in conversation, dinner, or wherever we are. I won't go wrestle my pastor down on the ground like I would my friend. I would never want to lose that. Just my take. I've had a good example of leadership.

[D. Wright]

Brethern,

Sounds like several around here aren't processing things clearly.

What's humorous in reading threads like this is the ministers are doing the very thing they are accusing the non-ministers of doing. Bashing is bashing.

Because something is said that you don't agree with doesn't make it bashing.

I would think as ministers our hides are a bit tougher than I am seeing here.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Bro. Dwight

Brethern,

Sounds like several around here aren't processing things clearly.

What's humorous in reading threads like this is the ministers are doing the very thing they are accusing the non-ministers of doing. Bashing is bashing.

Because something is said that you don't agree with doesn't make it bashing.

I would think as ministers our hides are a bit tougher than I am seeing here.

Brother,

I am not upset, not hurt, not offended, none of the above.

I just think every now and then some of the nonsense that gets perpetrated needs to be challenged, just as a matter ofprinciple.

Confronting error and erroneous attitudes doth not bashing make.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

Well I suppose that's the messy part. Having idealistic hopes about "friendship" and the way people should act.

But isn't that true no matter who a friend is? HE can be a Pastor or a non-Pastor...but the implication ends up sounding like any Pastor is going to act right and any saint is not.

That is really idealistic. What is worse? Being betrayed by a Pastor friend or being betrayed by a non-pastor friend?

Our pastor loves the saints and we have no question about that. We've even been over for dinner several times. We love each other. He respects me. In our flesh we want to quote the US Consitution and say "you're an equal", and at the foot of the cross he is, but in his role, I look to him, not at him. There still is a line that is never crossed in conversation, dinner, or wherever we are. I won't go wrestle my pastor down on the ground like I would my friend. I would never want to lose that. Just my take. I've had a good example of leadership.

The difference is I look to the office and respect that office

I look to the man with admiration and respect, because he earns it. I look to the man and see that he is fallible like us all and because he admits it I will go to the mat for him and defend him. He is more than my Pastor, he is my friend. If I express an opinion on some church related issue, he listens. He can agree or disagree and if he disagrees there is no argument, but at least he did listen. He respects my opinions. He respects me.

This idea of friends...Not every other Pastor is going to be your Pastor's friend...he may only have a couple out of several dozens. Same with the saints. He may not be friends with every saint on the same level.

I've seen saints get offended at how they were treated or thought they were treated and not be the pastors friend...so honestly I don't think being a friend is going to complicates things any worse. What really matters is if both parties are walking with the Lord

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

But isn't that true no matter who a friend is? HE can be a Pastor or a non-Pastor...but the implication ends up sounding like any Pastor is going to act right and any saint is not.

That is really idealistic. What is worse? Being betrayed by a Pastor friend or being betrayed by a non-pastor friend?


The difference is I look to the office and respect that office

I look to the man with admiration and respect, because he earns it. I look to the man and see that he is fallible like us all and because he admits it I will go to the mat for him and defend him. He is more than my Pastor, he is my friend. If I express an opinion on some church related issue, he listens. He can agree or disagree and if he disagrees there is no argument, but at least he did listen. He respects my opinions. He respects me.

This idea of friends...Not every other Pastor is going to be your Pastor's friend...he may only have a couple out of several dozens. Same with the saints. He may not be friends with every saint on the same level.

I've seen saints get offended at how they were treated or thought they were treated and not be the pastors friend...so honestly I don't think being a friend is going to complicates things any worse. What really matters is if both parties are walking with the Lord

Brother,
Your take has rubbed people wrong, not because I feel they want to "lord over anyone", but because it has an anarchist sound to it. I don't need to know all my Pastor's faults and fallibilities. It's that ignorance that allows him to lead me. I see enough faults being in flesh, and a selfish, critical human at times. No matter what anyone says, you respect someone less the closer they get to you. It's not fantasy or idol worship, it's just reality. I want him to be the most effective. And, I think this is a biblical model of leadership. The shepherd never gets down and acts like any of the sheep. He's the shepherd. He sings to them. Talks to them. Walks with them. But he never makes himself a sheep. There is always a distinction and it need not rub anyone the wrong way. Pastors have accountability, and no, these should not be their buddies.