How close should a pastor get to the members? - Page 15

Charnock · #**141** 12-11-2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

quote me saying ALL Pastors are bad. In fact you were the one that said first that they were evil...I figured you were saying that TIC so I said of course there are some good ones. There are probably a lot MORE than Some..'

Never the less that does not change my feelings about the topic of this thread and your attacks only solidifies that view.

My attacks?!

Buhahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!

Dude, you came flyin' in here like a bat out of purgatory, swingin' wildly.

I feel so victimized.....

Charnock · #**142** 12-11-2008, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amos

Husbands and saints don't get singled out and dogpiled here; pastors do.

As for a war of words, there is no war here; the conflict is within and can only be won by you and Jesus, Prax. You and Jesus.

Let us pray.

ChTatum · #**143** 12-11-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charnock

Okay, lets' test that.

Please post your financial statements for the past year.

Please share intimate details about your love life.

Get real.

You believe in no such thing.

It's a myth.

From the church I received approximately $25,000. From my secular profession, around $35,000.

Intimate details of my love life? Only with my wife. Would you like to know how often and to what degree?

I am real.

It may take me a while to figure how to scan my tax returns since I don't have a scanner, but if you would like a copy of my tax return please send me postage and an address.

Sorry you are such a skeptic.

2020Vision · #**144** 12-11-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

quote me saying ALL Pastors are bad. In fact you were the one that said first that they were evil...I figured you were saying that TIC so I said of course there are some good ones. There are probably a lot MORE than Some..'

Never the less that does not change my feelings about the topic of this thread and your attacks only solidifies that view.

This is simply a leadership style. I've seen the buddy pastor model work in very few cases. I've seen the "love them, eat with them, but don't be their best friend" model work in many cases. In the latter, there have been abuses where the Pastor has no relationship with his church. But the model isn't faulty, it's the individual Pastor.

A leader has to be always seen as a leader. Like it or not we put these folks above us (in our mind at least, and with our respect - and it's too bad to even church people we have to qualify the "above us", "below us" language). You lose that and you've lost the ability to lead, and become one of the flock. It's not an easy road being a leader or a pastor. It has great rewards, but also great sacrifices. Count the cost.

Amos · #**145** 12-11-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charnock

My attacks?!

Buhahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!

Dude, you came flyin' in here like a bat out of purgatory, swingin' wildly.

I feel so victimized.....

Me too, but in the midst of my pain, I feel a song coming on:

"Many arrows vex my soul, from without within
But my Lord goes ahead
Through Him I must win..."

Praxeas · #**146** 12-11-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Prax, it usually is a defense mechanism, and having grown up in a pastor's home, I can tell you there are often good reasons for a man to feel protective of himself and his family. Hopefully that culture is changing.

Yes but the point I have been making is you don't have to be a Pastor in order to experience this AND associating with only other Pastors is not going to fix that.

Quote:

As for the dividing of classes into "inferior/superior"--I think it's more likely a "trustworthy/untrustworthy" division, and again, with good reason in many cases.

yes but it appears as a class. Look..a non Pastor can experience the same thing from a pastor or a non-Pastor..so what is that person to do? Stop associating with both? See how easy it is to view this as a class issue?

Quote:

I like the ideal of pastors (and their families) being on friendly, congenial terms with the congregants. However, in practicality, close friendships aren't always possible, especially within the church culture as it exists now, where even finding out that your pastor's kid watched a movie can be information used as leverage at some point.

SO what if another Pastor finds out that Pastors kids watched a movie? Or what if that saint found out another saints kid watched a movie? The problem there is about being human, not a distinction between classes. We are, perhaps unwittingly, turning it into a class issue. Can a Pastor trust ANY Pastor? I have seen Pastors at their worst here on AFF...I know some can't be trusted anymore than a non-Pastor. So even a Pastor has to be careful which friends he has amoung the Pastors. It's not about being a non-pastor that makes one untrustworthy.

Quote:

Personally, I would like to feel free to pick up hitchhikers and take them to wherever they need to go. I always think they look cold and tired and feel compelled to stop and offer a lift. But truthfully, it would be a bad decision--not because they're all bad people, or because I don't think they're "worthy" of a pick-up, or even because I think they're somehow inferior, but simply because I don't want to put my life or the lives of my passengers at risk because of a "few bad men."

Well see, exactly. This is my point. Discerning who you can trust has nothing to do with whether or not they are a pastor. This has been part of my point. Who you can trust has nothing to do with whether they are a pastor or not. Some will see that as Pastor bashing unfortunatly...but since I am saying this is the truth with ALL people I supposed I am bashing ALL people.

The truth is the truth....people are untrustworthy because they are humans, not because they are a pastor or not. When we make that sort of distinction we are, whether one wants to admit it or not, creating a class distinction and division.

Quote:

I'm just saying that it's a trust issue, NOT (usually) a holier/better-than-thou issue.

But what does it say...at least to non-pastors, when the ONLY "class" one thinks they can trust are Pastors? It does create a class division. It does look as though the statement is "Pastors you can trust, saints you can not"...and the truth is there are a LOT Of saints out there that a Pastor can trust.

Charnock · #**147** 12-11-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChTatum

From the church I received approximately $25,000. From my secular profession, around $35,000.

Intimate details of my love life? Only with my wife. Would you like to know how often and to what degree?

I am real.

It may take me a while to figure how to scan my tax returns since I don't have a scanner, but if you would like a copy of my tax return please send me postage and an address.

Sorry you are such a skeptic.

ChTatum · #**148** 12-11-2008, 05:15 PM

Charnock, in the interest of full disclosure, and Biblical requirements of righteous judgement, please answer the same questions you have asked of me.

2020Vision · #**149** 12-11-2008, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChTatum

From the church I received approximately $25,000. From my secular profession, around $35,000.

Intimate details of my love life? Only with my wife. Would you like to know how often and to what degree?

I am real.

It may take me a while to figure how to scan my tax returns since I don't have a scanner, but if you would like a copy of my tax return please send me postage and an address.

Sorry you are such a skeptic.

*consulting the Proverbs for a good response to this one*

2020Vision · #**150** 12-11-2008, 05:17 PM

Someone re-opened an old wound.