Chester Hensley

[stasis]

It would be great to have mp3s of those CDs. I'd like to hear an actual sermon by the man himself.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

I know there are a lot of current and former UPC'ers out there. Does anyone remember Rev. Chester Hensley from Texas?

I remember him coming to our church when I was a boy 60's/70's and sat in awe of him. I was given some CD's of some of his messages recently and now disagreed with several things he preached.

If you remember, what are your thoughts of him?

I know my Father John Eckstadt was a friend of Chester Hensley.

[Jeremiah]

Note: I’m posting this in both threads regarding Chester Hensley.

Chester Hensley was my grandfather and I also feel compelled to respond. Of course, it pains me to hear the negative things being said about him. I have, however, grown up hearing opinions that run the gamut from jealousy to unreasonable hatred to downright hero-worship, so this is nothing new to me.

I’ve had several conversations with people from both sides of the fence concerning my grandfather and one thing that I’ve observed is this: the most outlandish tales (wearing white robes, spotlights, having a black chariot in the basement, controlling the weather, etc.) are told by people who didn’t see these things first hand but are just repeating rumors they themselves had heard from a ‘reliable’ source. Whether you like Chester Hensley or not, whether you agree with his teachings or not, whether you think his walk with God was real or not, you should be ashamed to repeat such gossip. It’s simply not Christian, i.e. ‘Christ-like’.

At this point, I’m sure that someone is getting ready to quote the scripture and call to mind our duty to reprove error within the church. That’s fine. If you have a problem with his teachings or sermons, then give me a direct quote and then refute it using the scripture. I’m happy to have that conversation as there are certain things he believed that I don’t necessarily agree with.

However, if you can’t directly quote his words or give an eye-witness account but instead resort to repeating wild rumors and exaggerations of what he said and did, and judging him thereby, then I suggest that you instead take a good look at yourself and your walk with God. Judging someone the way that people seem to judge him is contrary to the scriptures and indicative of a serious flaw within your self. Whether you realize it or not, your judgment says more about you than it does the person you’re judging.

But, lest you think I’m just defending him out of blind familial loyalty, let me add this: I currently go to church with several people, including my pastor, who attended Chester Hensley’s church for several years up to and immediately after his death and are ‘eye-witnesses’ both to what he taught and how he conducted himself. After relating the contents of these threads to them I was told by ‘eye-witnesses’ that most of it was complete hogwash and that wild outlandish rumors like these were common before his death and even more so afterwards.

[An aside to ‘Stasis’: Unlike Gary Armagh or Phil Volk, neither my current pastor nor those in his congregation (including myself) make any claim to the ‘mantle’ of Chester Hensley. They are hardly ‘flaky’ or ‘shady characters’ and are, in fact, decent scripture-abiding Christians. I implore you, don’t let your experience with Gary Armagh and his followers color your view of people you’ve never met.]

There are a few things mentioned specifically in these threads that I would like to address. The most outlandish tales I’m going to ignore, because they all seem to be second and third hand and, quite frankly, simply ridiculous.

Firstly, the Chauffeur and Limo: Yes he did have a used Limo and for a good reason. While he was evangelizing, his schedule was so tight that he didn’t have the time or money to stay in hotels. With a Limo he could catch some sleep on the ride to the next engagement. Why didn’t he just lay down in the back of a car? Well, to put it bluntly, he was a big guy. The room in the Limo allowed him to stretch out comfortably and catch a few hours of rest. It also allowed his kids (my mother) to travel comfortably with him.

He did not, however, have a hired Chauffeur. My dad, his son-in-law, and a couple other men in the church volunteered to take turns driving the Rev around. Chester did not ‘dress his Saints up as a Chauffeur’. My dad, as a joke, went out and bought a Chauffeur’s cap and wore it. They all thought it was pretty funny at the time, but it just goes to show how humorless some Christians can be. A practical joke by my dad was turned into just another example of Chester Hensley’s alleged pride. Speaking of which…

Chester Hensley’s Vanity/Pride/Whatever: Over the years I’ve heard and read many anecdotes of how full of himself Chester Hensley was. There is no doubt that certain people, both then and now, are in the throws of full blown hero-worship when it comes to Chester Hensley. We all know this kind of adulation of any man to be pure error.

Concerning his personal attitude, however, I have never heard it said by anyone who knew him personally that he was anything but humble, good-natured, and compassionate. Claims to the contrary by those who did not know him personally smacks of ignorance, rumor mongering, and downright character assassination.

If second hand testimony is not enough for you, let me give you a direct quote from Chester Hensley to his congregation not a year before he died (taken from a recorded sermon):

“You people better listen to me. You need to get your eyes off of me and onto God. God is a jealous God, and you people are looking too much to me. If you don’t get your eyes off of me and onto God then he is going to remove me. You hear me? I will die.”

A year later, he was dead of stomach cancer. Does that sound like the type of glory seeking charlatan that dresses up in white robes and has a spotlight shine on him as he enters the sanctuary? No, that sounds like a shepherd and servant of God that realizes some people in his congregation had lifted him up too high and he was desperately trying to get their worship back to where it belonged: on Jesus Christ.

Did some people think too highly of him? Absolutely, there’s no denying that. A lot of people still do. Did he think too highly of himself? According to his own words and the testimony of those who knew him personally (and are not glory seekers themselves), I would say it’s a big resounding ‘No’.

On blaming Chester for the failings of others: One of the posters in this thread related an unfortunate story of how their pastor in California went a bit nuts and then laid the blame squarely on Chester’s shoulders. My question is this: Why?

Forgive me, but blaming Chester Hensley for your pastor falling away is like blaming the Apostle Paul when one of his daughter works fell into error, which happened. Just read Galatians: “Oh, foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you that you should not obey the truth?”

I’ve been through church break ups and believe me, I know how easy it is to get bitter and how powerful the need is to lay blame. But I have to be honest, it sounds to me like your former pastor was the one with the problems, not Chester Hensley. The actions you say your former pastor is guilty of simply doesn’t line up with what he taught and how he lived his life according to the testimonies of those who actually knew him.

You can look at people that have stumbled in their walk with God and say ‘look at the fruits of Chester’s ministry’, but you can just as easily hear the testimony of faithful Holy Ghost filled men and women whose lives are still touched by his ministry a quarter century after his death.

On the question of his salvation: I’ve heard and read several comments along the lines of ‘It’s a shame that such a powerful ministry ended so badly’ and ‘…just goes to show you that having a gift doesn’t guarantee you salvation’. My question to all of you is this: Who are you to judge?

Do you have anything to go on other than rumor and hearsay? Are you privy to information that the people closest to him wasn’t? Somehow, I doubt it. The simple fact is that you don’t know.

Let’s just say, simply for the sake of argument, that he was indeed crazy and in error towards the end. Can any of you say, without a shadow of a doubt, that he didn’t repent and make himself right with God before the end? Would you stake your own eternal salvation on it?

I don’t think there is a single person on these boards who would.

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.” –Matt. 7:1-5

[Jeremiah]

Note: I’m posting this in both threads regarding Chester Hensley.

Chester Hensley was my grandfather and I also feel compelled to respond. Of course, it pains me to hear the negative things being said about him. I have, however, grown up hearing opinions that run the gamut from jealousy to unreasonable hatred to downright hero-worship, so this is nothing new to me.

I’ve had several conversations with people from both sides of the fence concerning my grandfather and one thing that I’ve observed is this: the most outlandish tales (wearing white robes, spotlights, having a black chariot in the basement, controlling the weather, etc.) are told by people who didn’t see these things first hand but are just repeating rumors they themselves had heard from a ‘reliable’ source. Whether you like Chester Hensley or not, whether you agree with his teachings or not, whether you think his walk with God was real or not, you should be ashamed to repeat such gossip. It’s simply not Christian, i.e. ‘Christ-like’.

At this point, I’m sure that someone is getting ready to quote the scripture and call to mind our duty to reprove error within the church. That’s fine. If you have a problem with his teachings or sermons, then give me a direct quote and then refute it using the scripture. I’m happy to have that conversation as there are certain things he believed that I don’t necessarily agree with.

However, if you can’t directly quote his words or give an eye-witness account but instead resort to repeating wild rumors and exaggerations of what he said and did, and judging him thereby, then I suggest that you instead take a good look at yourself and your walk with God. Judging someone the way that people seem to judge him is contrary to the scriptures and indicative of a serious flaw within your self. Whether you realize it or not, your judgment says more about you than it does the person you’re judging.

But, lest you think I’m just defending him out of blind familial loyalty, let me add this: I currently go to church with several people, including my pastor, who attended Chester Hensley’s church for several years up to and immediately after his death and are ‘eye-witnesses’ both to what he taught and how he conducted himself. After relating the contents of these threads to them I was told by ‘eye-witnesses’ that most of it was complete hogwash and that wild outlandish rumors like these were common before his death and even more so afterwards.

[An aside to ‘Stasis’: Unlike Gary Armagh or Phil Volk, neither my current pastor nor those in his congregation (including myself) make any claim to the ‘mantle’ of Chester Hensley. They are hardly ‘flaky’ or ‘shady characters’ and are, in fact, decent scripture-abiding Christians. I implore you, don’t let your experience with Gary Armagh and his followers color your view of people you’ve never met.]

There are a few things mentioned specifically in these threads that I would like to address. The most outlandish tales I’m going to ignore, because they all seem to be second and third hand and, quite frankly, simply ridiculous.

Firstly, the Chauffeur and Limo: Yes he did have a used Limo and for a good reason. While he was evangelizing, his schedule was so tight that he didn’t have the time or money to stay in hotels. With a Limo he could catch some sleep on the ride to the next engagement. Why didn’t he just lay down in the back of a car? Well, to put it bluntly, he was a big guy. The room in the Limo allowed him to stretch out comfortably and catch a few hours of rest. It also allowed his kids (my mother) to travel comfortably with him.

He did not, however, have a hired Chauffeur. My dad, his son-in-law, and a couple other men in the church volunteered to take turns driving the Rev around. Chester did not ‘dress his Saints up as a Chauffeur’. My dad, as a joke, went out and bought a Chauffeur’s cap and wore it. They all thought it was pretty funny at the time, but it just goes to show how humorless some Christians can be. A practical joke by my dad was turned into just another example of Chester Hensley’s alleged pride. Speaking of which…

Chester Hensley’s Vanity/Pride/Whatever: Over the years I’ve heard and read many anecdotes of how full of himself Chester Hensley was. There is no doubt that certain people, both then and now, are in the throws of full blown hero-worship when it comes to Chester Hensley. We all know this kind of adulation of any man to be pure error.

Concerning his personal attitude, however, I have never heard it said by anyone who knew him personally that he was anything but humble, good-natured, and compassionate. Claims to the contrary by those who did not know him personally smacks of ignorance, rumor mongering, and downright character assassination.

If second hand testimony is not enough for you, let me give you a direct quote from Chester Hensley to his congregation not a year before he died (taken from a recorded sermon):

“You people better listen to me. You need to get your eyes off of me and onto God. God is a jealous God, and you people are looking too much to me. If you don’t get your eyes off of me and onto God then he is going to remove me. You hear me? I will die.”

A year later, he was dead of stomach cancer. Does that sound like the type of glory seeking charlatan that dresses up in white robes and has a spotlight shine on him as he enters the sanctuary? No, that sounds like a shepherd and servant of God that realizes some people in his congregation had lifted him up too high and he was desperately trying to get their worship back to where it belonged: on Jesus Christ.

Did some people think too highly of him? Absolutely, there’s no denying that. A lot of people still do. Did he think too highly of himself? According to his own words and the testimony of those who knew him personally (and are not glory seekers themselves), I would say it’s a big resounding ‘No’.

On blaming Chester for the failings of others: One of the posters in this thread related an unfortunate story of how their pastor in California went a bit nuts and then laid the blame squarely on Chester’s shoulders. My question is this: Why?

Forgive me, but blaming Chester Hensley for your pastor falling away is like blaming the Apostle Paul when one of his daughter works fell into error, which happened. Just read Galatians: “Oh, foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you that you should not obey the truth?”

I’ve been through church break ups and believe me, I know how easy it is to get bitter and how powerful the need is to lay blame. But I have to be honest, it sounds to me like your former pastor was the one with the problems, not Chester Hensley. The actions you say your former pastor is guilty of simply doesn’t line up with what he taught and how he lived his life according to the testimonies of those who actually knew him.

You can look at people that have stumbled in their walk with God and say ‘look at the fruits of Chester’s ministry’, but you can just as easily hear the testimony of faithful Holy Ghost filled men and women whose lives are still touched by his ministry a quarter century after his death.

On the question of his salvation: I’ve heard and read several comments along the lines of ‘It’s a shame that such a powerful ministry ended so badly’ and ‘…just goes to show you that having a gift doesn’t guarantee you salvation’. My question to all of you is this: Who are you to judge?

Do you have anything to go on other than rumor and hearsay? Are you privy to information that the people closest to him wasn’t? Somehow, I doubt it. The simple fact is that you don’t know.

Let’s just say, simply for the sake of argument, that he was indeed crazy and in error towards the end. Can any of you say, without a shadow of a doubt, that he didn’t repent and make himself right with God before the end? Would you stake your own eternal salvation on it?

I don’t think there is a single person on these boards who would.

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.” –Matt. 7:1-5

[gloryseeker]

Hey, thanks for the post it is very interesting. I had been in many of his services as a kid and sat awestruck at the time at the gifts and how they operated.

My memories are fond of him. However, I do reiterate my opinion in that I was recently given some CD's of those services when I was a kid and I now disagree with some of the things he taught. That is not a condemnation, just I see things differently.

About the only thing I disagree with you on is your analogy of the Pastor who went nuts you threw the blame back on him. While I agree with you in that we should all guard ourselves, when one walks in a powerful anointing as he did that builds a confidence in that person. Right or wrong people will look up to that type of person and if there are wrong teachings they can be adhered to as truth.

Anyway, it was a good read thanks for sharing

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by crazyjoe

...aah, no!...........

.....by the way I enjoyed my double-double for dinner and watched 'My Name is Earl, The Office, and TIVO'd Survivor.....oh yeah, you guys have to download these programs into your Ipod to watch because sattlelite TV is baaaaaddd!!!.....................

Just remember, garbage in / garbage out...can't believe you watch that trash

[stasis]

To Jeremiah

I do think it's a bit ridiculous for people to count against Chester Hensley such things as:

1.) Having a black chariot in his basement. Even if he did, who cares? Maybe he liked it... I mean, it's not like he was hiding a television. LOL

2.) Talking to his horse on the phone. Even if he did, maybe Chester loved his horse. Maybe it put his horse in a better mood... or perhaps Chester was a true horse whisperer.

Both of these rumors were new to me... Just when I thought I'd heard it all! Though I must say they aren't as intruiging as those of fire-ball baptistries and weather-control.

I'm sure no one knows everything about the man. Not you, and surely not myself or the others on this forum.

As far as hero worship, I think people need to understand that all humans are inherently EVIL.

All those who I've known who were associated with Chester Hensley were flakes and shady characters, not speaking of everyone. I'm sure there are others who are evil in ways other than these, perhaps like yourself and some of your fellow church members, and myself. But hey, that's why we're supposed to bear our cross daily and live in perpetual repentance of our evil ways, the only way by which our sins are blotted out.

Yeah. 'Judging' is a whole new topic, so you're welcome to ask me if you want to know more about what 'judging' means and the difference between righteous and evil judgement.

[Jeremiah]

Originally Posted by stasis

Yeah. 'Judging' is a whole new topic, so you're welcome to ask me if you want to know more about what 'judging' means and the difference between righteous and evil judgement.

Thank you for your generosity, friend. I'm always happy to learn from my brothers and sisters in Christ. However, I believe that the difference between righteous judgement and 'evil' judgement was the point of my original post.

If you make a judgement based not on personal first-hand knowledge of a person (and backed up by Scripture), but upon heresay, rumor, and the actions of those who may have, at one point in their lives, been associated with the object of your judgement, then it's likely that your judgement is in error and therefore 'evil'.

You are absolutely right. I didn't know everything there was to know about the man. I admit that readily. I have, however, both heard and read several of his sermons and, like I said, there are things that I disagree with based on my understanding of the scripture. On the other hand, there are also things that I do agree with, once again, based on scripture.

My judgement, one way or the other, of his teachings is based on what I have heard and read myself as compared and proven (or disproven) by the scripture in personal study. This kind of judgement I can accept and respect from anyone.

What I can't accept, and what originally prompted me to post on this forum, was the the unrighteous judgement based on heresay and what basically amounts to rumor mongering. My 'aside' to you (and the scripture quoted at the end of the post) wasn't meant to be offensive in any way and I apologise if I didn't make it clear that I was opposing 'evil judgement' as you call it and that I was in no way promoting theological relativism.

Agape.

[Jeremiah]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

My memories are fond of him. However, I do reiterate my opinion in that I was recently given some CD's of those services when I was a kid and I now disagree with some of the things he taught. That is not a condemnation, just I see things differently.

Absolutely! I didn't take your comments on his teachings as condemnation. As I said, there are things he taught that I also disagree with based on personal study of the scripture. As I said in the above post to Stasis, it was the judgment based on heresay and rumor that bothered me.

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

About the only thing I disagree with you on is your analogy of the Pastor who went nuts you threw the blame back on him. While I agree with you in that we should all guard ourselves, when one walks in a powerful anointing as he did that builds a confidence in that person. Right or wrong people will look up to that type of person and if there are wrong teachings they can be adhered to as truth.

You're right, here's where we're going to disagree. I've spoken with someone who went to that church and witnessed what happened with that pastor. I was told that when the pastor's personall life fell apart he tried to use the name of Chester Hensley (man you yourself say had a powerful annointing) to bring his flock back under his authority by misquoting some of his words. Something, I should add, people have been doing with the bible for as long as it has existed.

I do agree that if an annointed man teachings error then it can affect people if they adhere to it as truth. However, if a man teaches (using your example) error on 'end time events' and 'the authority structure of the church', then you can't come back and say that, 'Because he taught us error on those subjects it's his fault that my pastor commited adultery and tore apart our church'.

Hearing false teaching on one subject does not absolve you of responsibility for your own actions when they are unrelated to that subject, especially when you are in a leadership position.

[Steve Epley]

I do not know ONE Hensley's splinter that stands for the truth he stood for in his early ministry ALL are Charismatic type churches. Name one that still preaches the necessity of the Acts 2:38 message and holiness.