What would you do

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

RICO - only one disagreement... I see the local church as a training center, traning believers for the work of the ministry... this is our purpose coming together... and should that equipping and training not take place.. to me we have sort of missed the purpose for the service...... honestly in places such as prayer meetings.. home meetings,, when we're alone we can worship God..... and yes even in the setting of the local church.. but if the church and pastor fails to realize the purpose for our gathering then we have indeed gathered in vain....

You see... maybe we arn't from the same background.... but when I was coming up... we tried to figure out ways to get a shout going so we would not have to endure "please turn in your Bibles"

Not being critical but the same mindset seems to be prevelant in Pentecostal & Apostolic circles... again I criticize no where.. I sincerely have a passion for scriptural church services... thanks bro

Bro. Vaughn, I agree with you that the church is our training center. It's that and more. Teaching people the importance of following God's direction in a service, allowing them to experience successes and failures while learning how to follow the leading of the Spirit, and reinforcing the truth that God's grace is sufficient (whether we succeed or fail), will produce the maturity you speak of.

Originally Posted by Rico

Bro. Vaughn, I agree with you that the church is our training center. It's that and more. Teaching people the importance of following God's direction in a service, allowing them to experience successes and failures while learning how to follow the leading of the Spirit, and reinforcing the truth that God's grace is sufficient (whether we succeed or fail), will produce the maturity you speak of.

Fair enough Brother

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

If there is one thing I try desperately is to have integrity & honesty. When I have been proven wrong I am not ashamed to admit it.

Perhaps my experience in Pentecost with out of control emotions caused me to go to the other extreme in an effort to be pleasing to the Lord.

While I maintain that "The day of Pentecost" cannot be used a biblical reference for out of control emotions and the term "drunk as ye suppose" has been grossly misued to justify Pentecostal extremism.......I do stand corrected and abolish my previous position that it is wrong to "do your thing" in the house of God......

You guys have successfully proven to me that since Paul did not CONDEMN those OT worship practices then we must not do the same..... However, I still maintain that Pentecost is not as obedient to Paul's teaching on Church Order as they should be.... and Pastors should try much harder to keep chaos which it typically found in Pentecost to a minimum..... Although, I do not see the purpose of running around isles and running the backs of pews, nor do I see it ever happening in the NT... I will no longer condemn it nor those who participate in it.... and issue a public apology and repent for having done so....

Blessings to all
Bro. Vaughn

One day right after I received the Holy Ghost in March of 1970 I laid on the floor speaking in tongues about 30 min. and didn't even know it,so it was not my flesh.I was in an other church about 6 months later,I was just think the preacher was false and all of a sudden the Holy Ghost jerked me our of my seat straight up over a pew and I landed in the isle on my back and lost my shoe. I sat up to get my shoe and the Holy Ghost knocked be back again.This time I stayed laying in the isle a while.Well I learned to watch what I think.I didn't even say anything,I was just thinking.Believe me I was not in the flesh.I had no control,the Holy Ghost taught me. Oh well,the Holy Ghost teaches me many things but many on this forum and others just mock.

Originally Posted by Joelel

One day right after I received the Holy Ghost in March of 1970 I laid on the floor speaking in tongues about 30 min. and didn't even know it,so it was not my flesh.I was in an other church about 6 months later,I was just think the preacher was false and all of a sudden the Holy Ghost jerked me our of my seat straight up over a pew and I landed in the isle on my back and lost my shoe. I sat up to get my shoe and the Holy Ghost knocked be back again.This time I stayed laying in the isle a while.Well I learned to watch what I think.I didn't even say anything,I was just thinking.Believe me I was not in the flesh.I had no control,the Holy Ghost taught me. Oh well,the Holy Ghost teaches me many things but many on this forum and others just mock.

I personally don't mock to mock you. When I received the Holy Ghost I spoke in tongues and wept and sobbed and lost track of time too. However, you said something that does trouble some of us...

I had no control,the Holy Ghost taught me.

I too have been prompted by the Holy Ghost to run, dance, shout, praise, and worship. I've even been used in a couple of the spiritual gifts. BUT, each time I was in control, I was just surrendered and yielding to the prompting of God's Spirit. I've personally never felt "out of control" with God moving me, knocking me, bumping me, rolling me (though I've felt the Holy Ghost prompt me to roll several times), or holding me down. There was one occasion where the power of God was so strong we worshiped and praised at the altar service and the glory truly came down brother. I virtually collapsed in exhaustion from worship and the power of God rested upon me so strongly...I don't want to move or get up. I just lay there speaking in tongues. I could have chosen to stop and get up to go back to my seat...but my soul didn't want to, I just wanted to bask in God's presence.

Sometimes when people say they weren't in any control, I have to wonder...was it the Holy Ghost? I ask this because I only find one place in Scripture where a person is moved and flopped around and had absolutely no control over it...

Mark 9:14-27
14And when he came to his disciples, he saw a great multitude about them, and the scribes questioning with them.
15And straightway all the people, when they beheld him, were greatly amazed, and running to him saluted him.
16And he asked the scribes, What question ye with them?
17And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
18And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
19He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
20And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
21And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
22And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
23Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
25When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
26And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
27But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.

Sometimes there's very strong demonic activity in church services. Not everything manifested in a church service is of the Holy Ghost. There's been some who sincerely thought something was the Holy Ghost and it wasn't. This is where discernment becomes very important. What happened to you may ave been the Holy Ghost, I wasn't there, so I really can't judge in your case.

I do have a question for the readers here. I know that in the Bible we see the power of the Holy Ghost demonstrated so powerfully that men speak with tongues, prophesy, interpret tongues, etc. But is there any scriptural examples of men rolling on the ground, jerking, juking, or flopping uncontrollably under the power of the Holy Ghost?

Originally Posted by Joelel

One day right after I received the Holy Ghost in March of 1970 I laid on the floor speaking in tongues about 30 min. and didn't even know it,so it was not my flesh.I was in an other church about 6 months later,I was just think the preacher was false and all of a sudden the Holy Ghost jerked me our of my seat straight up over a pew and I landed in the isle on my back and lost my shoe. I sat up to get my shoe and the Holy Ghost knocked be back again.This time I stayed laying in the isle a while.Well I learned to watch what I think.I didn't even say anything,I was just thinking.Believe me I was not in the flesh.I had no control,the Holy Ghost taught me. Oh well,the Holy Ghost teaches me many things but many on this forum and others just mock.

respectufylly, I have never seen a scriptural example where the Holy Ghost caused anyone to lose control of their being.... I do not doubt this happened to you..... but I do believe all things must line up with scriptural precedence... before anyone jumps down my throat about this... I give the same test to the people in Lakeland, Fl thats barking like dogs....... we must have scriptural precedence to allow certain things in our meetings.....

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

I personally don't mock to mock you. When I received the Holy Ghost I spoke in tongues and wept and sobbed and lost track of time too. However, you said something that does trouble some of us...



I too have been prompted by the Holy Ghost to run, dance, shout, praise, and worship. I've even been used in a couple of the spiritual gifts. BUT, each time I was in control, I was just surrendered and yielding to the prompting of God's Spirit. I've personally never felt "out of control" with God moving me, knocking me, bumping me, rolling me (though I've felt the Holy Ghost prompt me to roll several times), or holding me down. There was one occasion where the power of God was so strong we worshiped and praised at the altar service and the glory truly came down brother. I virtually collapsed in exhaustion from worship and the power of God rested upon me so strongly...I don't want to move or get up. I just lay there speaking in tongues. I could have chosen to stop and get up to go back to my seat...but my soul didn't want to, I just wanted to bask in God's presence.

Sometimes when people say they weren't in any control, I have to wonder...was it the Holy Ghost? I ask this because I only find one place in Scripture where a person is moved and flopped around and had absolutely no control over it...

Mark 9:14-27
14And when he came to his disciples, he saw a great multitude about them, and the scribes questioning with them.
15And straightway all the people, when they beheld him, were greatly amazed, and running to him saluted him.
16And he asked the scribes, What question ye with them?
17And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
18And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
19He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
20And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
21And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
22And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
23Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
25When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
26And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
27But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.

Sometimes there's very strong demonic activity in church services. Not everything manifested in a church service is of the Holy Ghost. There's been some who sincerely thought something was the Holy Ghost and it wasn't. This is where discernment becomes very important. What happened to you may ave been the Holy Ghost, I wasn't there, so I really can't judge in your case.

I do have a question for the readers here. I know that in the Bible we see the power of the Holy Ghost demonstrated so powerfully that men speak with tongues, prophesy, interpret tongues, etc. But is there any scriptural examples of men rolling on the ground, jerking, juking, or flopping uncontrollably under the power of the Holy Ghost?

NONE - we only have example of demonic posession that leads to this.. the boy casting himself in the fire, uncontrollably....

The writer said something that causes pause.... he basically said God was using him to try and correct the Pastor.... since that is not the place of the those "under authority" I am wondering why God would try to disrupt the service to bring Chaos and correction the Pastor publically

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

respectufylly, I have never seen a scriptural example where the Holy Ghost caused anyone to lose control of their being.... I do not doubt this happened to you..... but I do believe all things must line up with scriptural precedence... before anyone jumps down my throat about this... I give the same test to the people in Lakeland, Fl thats barking like dogs....... we must have scriptural precedence to allow certain things in our meetings.....

I have. One example was King Saul lying naked on the ground prophesying all night long. Another was Daniel falling on his face as though dead and that same thing happened to John

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

respectufylly, I have never seen a scriptural example where the Holy Ghost caused anyone to lose control of their being.... I do not doubt this happened to you..... but I do believe all things must line up with scriptural precedence... before anyone jumps down my throat about this... I give the same test to the people in Lakeland, Fl thats barking like dogs....... we must have scriptural precedence to allow certain things in our meetings.....

It's odd that some describe it as "barking like dogs" but how do we know that is what they were doing? I have heard it was more like grunting. Have you ever heard someone travail or groan while praying? Even the early methodists did this 200 years before Topeka

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I have. One example was King Saul lying naked on the ground prophesying all night long. Another was Daniel falling on his face as though dead and that same thing happened to John

Sorry, I didn't realize they had the baptism of the Holy Ghost...... my bad

Originally Posted by Praxeas

It's odd that some describe it as "barking like dogs" but how do we know that is what they were doing? I have heard it was more like grunting. Have you ever heard someone travail or groan while praying? Even the early methodists did this 200 years before Topeka

It's not for the public assembly, no matter what it is.. hog grunting or barking,, only demons operate in the animalistic realm... so hog grunting or dog barking should be reserved for a prayer closet