Old way of Holiness Standard do we need to keep?

[Raven]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Its easy (and tempting) to look back into history for a model of the New Testament Church. And, the model is there. But, in looking back, we have to ask ourselves: Is this the plan for the church of the last days? We mistakenly think (or want to think) the NT Church was the perfect example of what God wants of His church, but, this simply isn't the case. The early church was full of division and sin. Just look how many time Paul found it necessary to rebuke and chasten the early church. In fact, an honest survey of the early church reveals are very similar view of the modern day church.

Our model cannot be the early church, but, rather, its Founder, Jesus Christ. He is our model and our example of what God wants His church- His people- to be. Even if the early church was a better model, we still do not get a clear picture of what God plans for us.

Hag 2:9 The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.

The modern-day church (latter house) is greater than the early church (former house), according to this prophecy. But we see the same problems today as Paul encountered in the 1st Century Church. So, other than Jesus Himself, we have no clear pattern for the church of today.

But, we do, Jesus Himself. And, we catch glimpses of the last days church throughout the Bible.

Does this church exist? Yes, as long as WE, the church, strive to be the model of God's Church. We should not, (and really, can't) look to the past as a model of the church. Jesus said No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. Looking to the past halts our forward progression. Paul adds: Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [this] one thing [I do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.Phl 3:13-14
The "prize", our objective is in front of us, not behind us. People say "Back to Pentecost!". But revival is not behind us. Its a head. The American Pentecostal Movement has been blessed with Revival many times in its history. There is, at least one more major move of God ahead- A Revival of Restoration. We may miss it if we're looking back to the "good ol' days". In the midst that revival, we will finally see the emergence of what God really wants for His people-
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Great words OneAccord. You continue to impress me with your wisdom. It seems there are those who are afflicted with Mary's error. At the empty tomb Mary wept for where Jesus used to be. She wanted to go back and recapture the past but could not. It was only upon hearing someone call her name behind her that she turned and saw the resurrected Christ. This is not a time to look back but to turn around and look forward to where Jesus is now. The future of the Church is bright and nothing will ever be the same again!!!

Raven

[robert]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

"Because I said so!" IS a valid reason for a parent to give their kid..... When their kid is 7, 8, or 9, or younger. However, as they get older, they do need some reasons. When I was in my middle teens I heard "because the Church says...." or more commonly "because the pastor says!" as "reason enough!" to do something. When I became an adult, the freedom from that sort of reasoning was very liberating!

Traln up a child in the way that he should go; and when he is old , he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6... Are you saying your parents failed to train you correctly?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by robert

Traln up a child in the way that he should go; and when he is old , he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6... Are you saying your parents failed to train you correctly?

I know the question was not directed to me, but here is how I see it. If you do your job at training they will not depart. But depends on what you teach. If you teach them that God's word is supreme and that they need to seek out truth for what it is then they will not fall back. I was raised up to follow what I was taught, but also to seek the answers to what I was learning. I believe this is key to why the verse uses train instead of teach. Reason being is it does not benefit you as an idividual to just memorize info like multiplication tables in math or verses in the Bible. If benefits you to search for the answer or to work the problem so you know what the answer is. It is not good to go on what is said you have to go on what you know.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by robert

Traln up a child in the way that he should go; and when he is old , he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6... Are you saying your parents failed to train you correctly?

Telling a 14, 15, or 16 year old that "we do this because that is what our Church teaches", is not "training". It is simply making a young adult follow the house rules, then when he moves out he is free to do what he wants or believes.
It is just another version of the principles versus standard "debate" (although why it is even a debate it beyond me....).

[Dan'D]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Wanna hear something funny? While I've raised my children in the UPC all their lives, I've always abided by my own standards except for a period of time when I was a member of the choir, but even during that time, I never subjected my daughter to 'standards' as taught by the UPC.

That said, she is now 14. She hasn't had her hair cut in almost 3 years. She reads her Bible faithfully, as well as church attendance. She is in the altar praying with her peers. All she has to do is get rid of her pants and she'll be an ultra-con.....LOL!

But I allow her to follow her own beliefs. I've taught her to live by her convictions. At her age, she is close to being responsible for her own salvation. I'm proud of her.

So we are to pick and choose what we want to believe from what the pastors say but we believe what we want because……

Dan’D

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Wanna hear something funny? While I've raised my children in the UPC all their lives, I've always abided by my own standards except for a period of time when I was a member of the choir, but even during that time, I never subjected my daughter to 'standards' as taught by the UPC.

That said, she is now 14. She hasn't had her hair cut in almost 3 years. She reads her Bible faithfully, as well as church attendance. She is in the altar praying with her peers. All she has to do is get rid of her pants and she'll be an ultra-con.....LOL!

But I allow her to follow her own beliefs. I've taught her to live by her convictions. At her age, she is close to being responsible for her own salvation. I'm proud of her.

I hope you continue to be so because the odds are not in your favor. I always thought that our mandate was to train up our children in the way they should go, not the way they choose for themselves. The natural inclinations of human beings still is bent toward sinning, regardless of what secular theology promotes.

Our children are the heritage of the Lord, and the fruit of the womb is his reward. I always try to remind myself of that. We are cultivating and raising children, not uncurried weeds.

God bless. I hope all works out for you and your precious daughter.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Dan'D

So we are to pick and choose what we want to believe from what the pastors say but we believe what we want because……

Dan’D

It lines up with Bible? YES!!

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

I hope you continue to be so because the odds are not in your favor. I always thought that our mandate was to train up our children in the way they should go, not the way they choose for themselves. The natural inclinations of human beings still is bent toward sinning, regardless of what secular theology promotes.

Our children are the heritage of the Lord, and the fruit of the womb is his reward. I always try to remind myself of that. We are cultivating and raising children, not uncurried weeds.

God bless. I hope all works out for you and your precious daughter.

You don't think I'm training her in the way she should go? At the age of 14, when most girls her age aren't virgins any longer, I think I'm doing a fine job so far!

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

You don't think I'm training her in the way she should go? At the age of 14, when most girls her age aren't virgins any longer, I think I'm doing a fine job so far!

I don't know anything accept what you write. I was just giving thoughts based upon your comment.

As one who has worked with youth on a variety of levels for many years, one thing I have observed is this. It often takes awhile for everthing to "shake out" so to speak. The bible uses the term, "when he is old" he will not depart from it. We are interested in nurturing children who will become lifelong christians, and reach their final reward.

Btw, if my 14 year old daughter was not a virgin, I would berate myself as an abject, pitiful failure as a father, not worthy of the gift of her life. That does not mean that if she maintained her virginity at 14 that I could say I was doing great job as a parent. I would need to base my success on a lot more data than that.

God's blessings upon you!

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

I don't know anything accept what you write. I was just giving thoughts based upon your comment.

As one who has worked with youth on a variety of levels for many years, one thing I have observed is this. It often takes awhile for everthing to "shake out" so to speak. The bible uses the term, "when he is old" he will not depart from it. We are interested in nurturing children who will become lifelong christians, and reach their final reward.

Btw, if my 14 year old daughter was not a virgin, I would berate myself as an abject, pitiful failure as a father, not worthy of the gift of her life. That does not mean that if she maintained her virginity at 14 that I could say I was doing great job as a parent. I would need to base my success on a lot more data than that.

God's blessings upon you!

I totally agree. There is much more to her life and the life of her 16 yr old brother where I determine my success thus far.

I also know how I was raised, and that I will not nor have ever raised my children in the same fashion.

I thank you for your comments. I like to read advice from someone who's been there.