The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits

[AGAPE]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I have to chuckle when I see these modern backsliders calling themselves adherents of the "PCI" doctrine.

They don't have any more in common with the old PCI men than modern liberal democrats do with the architects of the New Deal. They both claim a connection with a heritage they have absolutely nothing in common with, and simply want to trade on a name that is respected.

The men of the PCI were mostly men who had come out of denominations that were trinitarian, and had received a revelation of Truth.

They preached their revelation with such passion and fervor that no one would have known by their preaching that they differed from the PAJC men, for the most part.

This was because they had made a move toward Truth and revelation.

They loved this New Birth, Oneness Message.

This new breed are a totally different kettle of fish.

They are moving away from Truth.

They are embarassed to be associated with strong doctrinal men. They would rather identify with those proclaiming an easy-believism message than with the Apostolic church.

So when you try and get them to discuss the doctrine of salvation, they spout clouds of obfuscatory smoke about how it is Jesus who saves, and it is a journey, and blah blah blah.

Nothing solid.

And they call themselves adherents of the "PCI Doctrine."

Well, the men of the old PCI would probably be ashamed to claim them, because they came out from long and deeply rooted belief systems and sold out to preach this Jesus Name message. It cost them something to be able to say "I'm one of them," as the old song says.

Most of these slack-jawed compromisers could preach all day, and if you ran their message through a centrifuge, you couldn't distill half an ounce of good doctrine, nor figure out how to be saved.

PCI?

Yep.

Pathetic Compromising Ingrates.

Now, if that isn't clear enough, let me know and I will try and dial it down a little better for you.

[truthseeker3139]

Originally Posted by stmatthew
OK Harmonize the text I have given with the rest of scripture.

Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

So was James wrong in saying that Abraham was justified When he offered up Isaac? Note that it does not say that Abrahams faith was justified. You would have to add something in there that is not there.


Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Don't you see that when Abraham put actions to his faith, that his works made his faith complete?


Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Again, when Abraham believed God, he had corresponding actions to that faith, and when faith was perfected (completed) he received the imputation for righteousness


Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Do you see?? There is no way around these verses unless you misrepresent them, as BG does. A Man is justified by works of faith, and not merely faith alone.

originally posted by truthseeker3139

Please harmonize this belief with the following teaching of Paul

Romans 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."[a]

4Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Your intepretation of James 2 is in direct contradiction with Romans 4. This is no way to properly harmonize Paul's writing with that of James. What you have neglected to take into consideration is in whom's eyes the justification occurs. James is writing with the perspective of seeing justification through the eyes of men. We as men can only see actions and not the intent of the heart. God doesn't need to see because He knows that when He justifies solely on the basis of a man's faith that works will occur.

bump

[SDG]

Excellent points TruthSeeker

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Didn't those in the Old Testament have to give a sin offering? Without the sheeding of blood there is no remisson of sin. So it's back to the same ole question, when is the blood applied? At repentance or in baptism?

Yes, they did. I didn't make the distinction because I thought it was a given ..... that everyone knows in the OT a sin offering was required and the priest was the one to offer that.

However, the High Priest, Jesus Christ paid the price once and for all and He became the atonement for our sin so we can approach Him individually and freely to obtain forgiveness for sin.

As to when the blood is applied and when remission takes place ....... this is controversial and has already been addressed in previous posts.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Yes, they did. I didn't make the distinction because I thought it was a given ..... that everyone knows in the OT a sin offering was required and the priest was the one to offer that.

However, the High Priest, Jesus Christ paid the price once and for all and He became the atonement for our sin so we can approach Him individually and freely to obtain forgiveness for sin.

As to when the blood is applied and when remission takes place ....... this is controversial and has already been addressed in previous posts.

One thing we can be certain of, Sis. Felicity...the Almighty God of all creation knows. I am counting on Him to set all of this straight...I want to be right in every area of my thinking and theology, and let all the Saints say, "AMEN!!"

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Barb

One thing we can be certain of, Sis. Felicity...the Almighty God of all creation knows. I am counting on Him to set all of this straight...I want to be right in every area of my thinking and theology, and let all the Saints say, "AMEN!!"

Amen ... Help us Lord

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

The Blood in the tabernacle began a journey at the brazen altar that was not culminated until it reached the mercy seat at the Holy of Holies.

If it had stopped at any place short of completion, there would have been no atonement.

Even so, we appropriate the benefits of the Blood when we complete our obedience to God's only plan of salvation--Acts 2:38.

If we stop short, no soap.

This would be true if we were the ones carrying the blood. Thankfully we don't!

Jesus became the High Priest. "We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek." (Heb.6:19-20)


Who offered Himself as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." (Jn. 1:29) "How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!" (Heb.9:14)


Then personally carried His shed blood to the holiest place and the mercy seat for us. "When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption." (Heb.9:11-12)

Now we by faith accept the provision God made for us through the offering of Jesus Christ. "This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.(Rom.3:22-26)

To some folks their constant mantra is "DO! DO! DO!" but the constant message of Calvary is "DONE! DONE! DONE!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

This would be true if we were the ones carrying the blood. Thankfully we don't!

Jesus became the High Priest. "We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek." (Heb.6:19-20)


Who offered Himself as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." (Jn. 1:29) "How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!" (Heb.9:14)


Then personally carried His shed blood to the holiest place and the mercy seat for us. "When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption." (Heb.9:11-12)

Now we by faith accept the provision God made for us through the offering of Jesus Christ. "This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.(Rom.3:22-26)

To some folks their constant mantra is "DO! DO! DO!" but the constant message of Calvary is "DONE! DONE! DONE!

Perhaps they would rather re-enact the death, burial and resurrection? ... WAS IT ENOUGH????

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Again I disagree with Elder Seagraves but YOU nor has anyone answered the simple question if forgiveness and remission are the same then why
were sins forgiven but NOT taken away or remitted in the OT????????
So they are NOT the same though they come from the same word because the same act shedding of blood procurs BOTH and make BOTH available by faith and obedience.

The simple answer to your question is found in Hebrews 9:9-10, "This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order."

The greater offering and better covenant corrected the weakness of the old covenant as we read in Hebrews 9:13-14, "The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!"

You can state it however you want to fit your theology, but I came to Jesus Christ one day and placed my faith in what Jesus did FOR me in offering Himself as my substitute on the cross. When I placed my faith in Him as Savior and Lord, I felt conviction, repented of my sins, and rose from the altar with a clean conscience. I didn't have to wait until I was baptized or received the baptism of the Holy Ghost to feel cleansed from my sins. Immediately upon entering into a faith relationship with Jesus Christ I had a strong desire to serve the living God!

I think we are wise to embrace the Word rather than man's opinions!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

The simple answer to your question is found in Hebrews 9:9-10, "This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order."

The greater offering and better covenant corrected the weakness of the old covenant as we read in Hebrews 9:13-14, "The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!"

You can state it however you want to fit your theology, but I came to Jesus Christ one day and placed my faith in what Jesus did FOR me in offering Himself as my substitute on the cross. When I placed my faith in Him as Savior and Lord, I felt conviction, repented of my sins, and rose from the altar with a clean conscience. I didn't have to wait until I was baptized or received the baptism of the Holy Ghost to feel cleansed from my sins. Immediately upon entering into a faith relationship with Jesus Christ I had a strong desire to serve the living God!

I think we are wise to embrace the Word rather than man's opinions!

TB, where do you pastor ... cause those folks are being fed!!!!!!!!!!!
Sound doctrine.