Tithes and Offering (situation)

[praisetheLord]

I'm new here. I hope I'm posting in the correct place.
Before I begin: I believe in paying tithes and offering and I have been faithful for years. Have attended this church for about 35 years. I play the organ and sing in choir and praise team.

The situation:
I attend a church where about 4 years ago the building was paid off. It is a church of around 400 people. A piece of the church property is being rented out by a school activity club a couple times a week and brings the church about 5-8,000 dollars per month for about 7 years. A recent storm flooded a Sunday School room and the insurance gave a large $85,000 payout to cover the cost however men in the church were able to do the repairs for a couple hundred dollars. This year the church had huge renovations done where a balcony was added and the Baptistry was updated. Our church is very financially stable. The pastor has 2 brand new Chevy trucks, a red tesla, and just got a new Ford bronco sport.
This year 2023 has been a hard year financially for me. I'm the only one in my house working right now taking care of rent, bills, food, gas and the inflation is killing me. I'm trying my best to cover all of the bills so that I don't get too behind and I haven't paid tithes on and off for a couple of months. Some months I can and some months I can't. I know things will get better.
Here's the actual situation part:
My pastor has been preaching tithes and offering. Normally when a preacher preaches that I get it because I agree with paying tithes and offering etc.
But the things that are being said just feel sooo wrong.
Some things said:
"If you don't pay tithes you have the spirit of Ananias and Saphirah"
"Don't you even think about stepping on this platform if you don't pay tithes"
"If you're not paying tithes then your spirit isn't right
"If you don't pay tithes then you're in sin"
And I don't have any idea if other people haven't paid tithes or not or if he's saying it because I'm not. But I have this strange feeling that you get when you know that something isn't right. And some might say maybe you're convicted but this is different. I know what's right and I'm not purposely withholding tithes because it's something that I want to do. Our bishop would never say things like that ever. He would preach tithing if he needed to. And one time several years ago I was in a similar situation and my bishop didn't preach about tithes and offering but he came up to me and just asked if everything was ok and just asked how things were going and eventually I was back to paying tithes.
And since I'm a musician and singer when he preached and said "if you're not paying tithes then don't step onto this platform" in all honesty I kinda felt a tad offended but idk if it was about me specifically or if several people haven't been paying tithes idk. But the thought came to me "so only the rich and famous can go on the platform to worship". I'm not living in sin or choosing to do wrong. There's just no compassion and everything is about money and you pay or you're wrong and your heart is wrong, if you can't pay then you can't play.

What are your thoughts? Is there something wrong or am I tripping?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by praisetheLord

I'm new here. I hope I'm posting in the correct place.
Before I begin: I believe in paying tithes and offering and I have been faithful for years. Have attended this church for about 35 years. I play the organ and sing in choir and praise team.

The situation:
I attend a church where about 4 years ago the building was paid off. It is a church of around 400 people. A piece of the church property is being rented out by a school activity club a couple times a week and brings the church about 5-8,000 dollars per month for about 7 years. A recent storm flooded a Sunday School room and the insurance gave a large $85,000 payout to cover the cost however men in the church were able to do the repairs for a couple hundred dollars. This year the church had huge renovations done where a balcony was added and the Baptistry was updated. Our church is very financially stable. The pastor has 2 brand new Chevy trucks, a red tesla, and just got a new Ford bronco sport.
This year 2023 has been a hard year financially for me. I'm the only one in my house working right now taking care of rent, bills, food, gas and the inflation is killing me. I'm trying my best to cover all of the bills so that I don't get too behind and I haven't paid tithes on and off for a couple of months. Some months I can and some months I can't. I know things will get better.
Here's the actual situation part:
My pastor has been preaching tithes and offering. Normally when a preacher preaches that I get it because I agree with paying tithes and offering etc.
But the things that are being said just feel sooo wrong.
Some things said:
"If you don't pay tithes you have the spirit of Ananias and Saphirah"
"Don't you even think about stepping on this platform if you don't pay tithes"
"If you're not paying tithes then your spirit isn't right
"If you don't pay tithes then you're in sin"
And I don't have any idea if other people haven't paid tithes or not or if he's saying it because I'm not. But I have this strange feeling that you get when you know that something isn't right. And some might say maybe you're convicted but this is different. I know what's right and I'm not purposely withholding tithes because it's something that I want to do. Our bishop would never say things like that ever. He would preach tithing if he needed to. And one time several years ago I was in a similar situation and my bishop didn't preach about tithes and offering but he came up to me and just asked if everything was ok and just asked how things were going and eventually I was back to paying tithes.
And since I'm a musician and singer when he preached and said "if you're not paying tithes then don't step onto this platform" in all honesty I kinda felt a tad offended but idk if it was about me specifically or if several people haven't been paying tithes idk. But the thought came to me "so only the rich and famous can go on the platform to worship". I'm not living in sin or choosing to do wrong. There's just no compassion and everything is about money and you pay or you're wrong and your heart is wrong, if you can't pay then you can't play.

What are your thoughts? Is there something wrong or am I tripping?

Something is wrong.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by praisetheLord

I'm new here. I hope I'm posting in the correct place.
Before I begin: I believe in paying tithes and offering and I have been faithful for years. Have attended this church for about 35 years. I play the organ and sing in choir and praise team.

The situation:
I attend a church where about 4 years ago the building was paid off. It is a church of around 400 people. A piece of the church property is being rented out by a school activity club a couple times a week and brings the church about 5-8,000 dollars per month for about 7 years. A recent storm flooded a Sunday School room and the insurance gave a large $85,000 payout to cover the cost however men in the church were able to do the repairs for a couple hundred dollars. This year the church had huge renovations done where a balcony was added and the Baptistry was updated. Our church is very financially stable. The pastor has 2 brand new Chevy trucks, a red tesla, and just got a new Ford bronco sport.
This year 2023 has been a hard year financially for me. I'm the only one in my house working right now taking care of rent, bills, food, gas and the inflation is killing me. I'm trying my best to cover all of the bills so that I don't get too behind and I haven't paid tithes on and off for a couple of months. Some months I can and some months I can't. I know things will get better.
Here's the actual situation part:
My pastor has been preaching tithes and offering. Normally when a preacher preaches that I get it because I agree with paying tithes and offering etc.
But the things that are being said just feel sooo wrong.
Some things said:
"If you don't pay tithes you have the spirit of Ananias and Saphirah"
"Don't you even think about stepping on this platform if you don't pay tithes"
"If you're not paying tithes then your spirit isn't right
"If you don't pay tithes then you're in sin"
And I don't have any idea if other people haven't paid tithes or not or if he's saying it because I'm not. But I have this strange feeling that you get when you know that something isn't right. And some might say maybe you're convicted but this is different. I know what's right and I'm not purposely withholding tithes because it's something that I want to do. Our bishop would never say things like that ever. He would preach tithing if he needed to. And one time several years ago I was in a similar situation and my bishop didn't preach about tithes and offering but he came up to me and just asked if everything was ok and just asked how things were going and eventually I was back to paying tithes.
And since I'm a musician and singer when he preached and said "if you're not paying tithes then don't step onto this platform" in all honesty I kinda felt a tad offended but idk if it was about me specifically or if several people haven't been paying tithes idk. But the thought came to me "so only the rich and famous can go on the platform to worship". I'm not living in sin or choosing to do wrong. There's just no compassion and everything is about money and you pay or you're wrong and your heart is wrong, if you can't pay then you can't play.

What are your thoughts? Is there something wrong or am I tripping?

Honestly, on forums, chat rooms, or any social media it's hard to get an opinion on your own personal situation. While it seems easy enough to just take your view of things at face value and give an answer, it may cause more problems then solutions for you. Preacher making bank, driving two brand new trucks. The poor saint sucking on their wallet, trying to make ends meet, while Pastor Jeff Bezos is shooting off his rockets to the moon. You already feel bewildered, upset, and angry. What happens when we bring our burdens to the forum for answers on sensitive issues instead of prayer and dealing with people where we are located. We get even more bewildered, upset, but now hotter than a hornet. Because of the current economical situation this country is in, there are probably many who are not able to give. Contributions whether you call them tithes, offerings, or dues, they are supposed to be given freely. Which means without coercion, Ananias and Sapphira wasn't killed because of lack of tithing. They died because they promised to donate a certain amount and kept part of the money. Peter tells them something many tithes and offering ministers wouldn't. Peter makes the statement that the money was theirs and to do as they pleased with it Acts 5:3. It's the lying to the Holy Ghost part that upset Peter.
Anyway, broke people can only give what they are willing to give by faith. Anything that is not done in faith is sin Romans 14:23. Therefore not everyone who is sucking on their wallet, broker than broke, is the widow giving her last mite. She is just an example, not a rule. Meaning we can't expect people to follow that religiously, meaning "mechanically." Everything especially giving must be done CHEERFULLY. If you aren't cheerful hysterical giver, you can't give two bits. You can't give if you ain't got, and giving what you ain't got just messes you up mentally, physically, and ultimately SPIRITUALLY.

[Sister Alvear]

Something does not ring the RIGHT bell...Yes I pay tithes but I can teach tithes without offending and sending people to hell...

[coksiw]

praisetheLord,

Besides, Benincasas' answer which is spot on, I would like you to reconsider something.

I know you said you believe in tithing, but perhaps is time to even reconsider the teaching honestly looking at the Scriptures. You can find plenty of argumentation in this forum about it. You can also even use the same Bro Bernard's logic that "you shouldn't use history to prove a doctrine, but you can use history to show how a doctrine had a post apostolic origin, hence false."
Tithing is as clear as water a post-apostolic doctrine (e.g.): https://books.google.com/books?id=Yx...page&q&f=false
Jesus set clearly how ministry should be financed in the New Covenant, and the Apostles followed it, ...: "as they give."

Some tithers among you, when can't defend it anymore Biblical, would go to testimonies, but those testimonies ignore plenty of other cases where those blessing do not happen, but beside that, the grace of God blessing someone's honest giving doesn't mean that God approves the doctrine per se; some Trinitarians get the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues, yet it doesn't mean God approves the Trinitarian doctrine. The grace of God works even in less than ideal situations.

Anyways, you may choose to follow the post-apostolic tradition of tithing, after all we must give to support the congregation needs and projects, but keep in mind that the Pharisees were accused of invalidating God's commandments for the sake of their obedience to a tradition (Mar 7:9-13). Just make sure you don't find yourself invalidating God's expectations of you for the sake of a tradition. In the Scriptures those that gave everything, even their whole livelihood, sacrificed themselves alone, not their dependents, ... and the one that even sacrificed their dependent's food did it following a prophet instructions at the moment. It was a working of a miracle. Giving is part of righteousness, but there is a balance, and a time.

Praise God, I have been able to afford tithing, but in my heart, it is as clear as water, for example, that if I find myself in the next likely situation that I have to choose between tithing or helping my parents financially, I would stop tithing and step down as a minister, because obeying "honor your parents" goes before traditions and access to local platform ministry.

That being said, there are Apostolic Pentecostal churches out there with Pastors with a compassionate heart that allow people in the platform even if they don't tithe but give something. Not everyone has such a messed up view of it.

[Tithesmeister]

The scriptural tithe was ordered by God.
It was for a certain people, in a particular place, and for a period of time.

People: The Hebrews.
Tithing was not a Gentile thing, neither was it a Christian thing. At least not in the Bible.

Deut.5

[1] And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
[2] The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
[3] The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

Particular place: The tithe commandment was to be kept in the promised land.

Deuteronomy 4
5] Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.

The tithe was given from the crops, flocks and herds produced from the promised land.

Period of time: Paul’s interpretation of the symbolism of the “vail” over Moses face.

2Cor.3

[13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

So we have a people, a place, and a time for the statutes, or the law.

I’ve heard many people explain that the OT established a principle of tithing. This is how they make the jump from a tithe that God ordered to be agricultural, (and never money) to a tithe that is money (and never agricultural).

However they completely ignore the following passage.

Deut.4

[1] Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
[2] Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

God said do not make any changes to His word. Changing from a tithe that was ALWAYS agricultural, and NEVER money, to a tithe that is ALWAYS money and NEVER agricultural is a significant change.

Never in the Bible was tithes ever rendered in money. Not once. Tithing money is a direct disobedience to God’s word.

There are many similar changes made to the tithing law. Interesting scriptural facts that are ignored. One being that being a preacher or pastor never entitled anyone to tithes. At least not in the Bible.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by praisetheLord

I'm new here. I hope I'm posting in the correct place.
Before I begin: I believe in paying tithes and offering and I have been faithful for years. Have attended this church for about 35 years. I play the organ and sing in choir and praise team.

The situation:
I attend a church where about 4 years ago the building was paid off. It is a church of around 400 people. A piece of the church property is being rented out by a school activity club a couple times a week and brings the church about 5-8,000 dollars per month for about 7 years. A recent storm flooded a Sunday School room and the insurance gave a large $85,000 payout to cover the cost however men in the church were able to do the repairs for a couple hundred dollars. This year the church had huge renovations done where a balcony was added and the Baptistry was updated. Our church is very financially stable. The pastor has 2 brand new Chevy trucks, a red tesla, and just got a new Ford bronco sport.
This year 2023 has been a hard year financially for me. I'm the only one in my house working right now taking care of rent, bills, food, gas and the inflation is killing me. I'm trying my best to cover all of the bills so that I don't get too behind and I haven't paid tithes on and off for a couple of months. Some months I can and some months I can't. I know things will get better.
Here's the actual situation part:
My pastor has been preaching tithes and offering. Normally when a preacher preaches that I get it because I agree with paying tithes and offering etc.
But the things that are being said just feel sooo wrong.
Some things said:
"If you don't pay tithes you have the spirit of Ananias and Saphirah"
"Don't you even think about stepping on this platform if you don't pay tithes"
"If you're not paying tithes then your spirit isn't right
"If you don't pay tithes then you're in sin"
And I don't have any idea if other people haven't paid tithes or not or if he's saying it because I'm not. But I have this strange feeling that you get when you know that something isn't right. And some might say maybe you're convicted but this is different. I know what's right and I'm not purposely withholding tithes because it's something that I want to do. Our bishop would never say things like that ever. He would preach tithing if he needed to. And one time several years ago I was in a similar situation and my bishop didn't preach about tithes and offering but he came up to me and just asked if everything was ok and just asked how things were going and eventually I was back to paying tithes.
And since I'm a musician and singer when he preached and said "if you're not paying tithes then don't step onto this platform" in all honesty I kinda felt a tad offended but idk if it was about me specifically or if several people haven't been paying tithes idk. But the thought came to me "so only the rich and famous can go on the platform to worship". I'm not living in sin or choosing to do wrong. There's just no compassion and everything is about money and you pay or you're wrong and your heart is wrong, if you can't pay then you can't play.

What are your thoughts? Is there something wrong or am I tripping?

A few observations:

1.) You should simply ask the pastor directly. No point reaching out to strangers on an internet forum. Do you trust us more than you trust him?

2.) How does a school activity club renting a part of the church property a couple times a week net your church 5-8,000 dollars? Is that over the 7 years you mentioned?

3.) If the insurance pay out was $85,000, but the repairs were done for only a few hundred, where did the rest of the many thousands of dollars go?