More on Skirts

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The point is, Deuteronomy 22:5 can't be about pants, they weren't worn in ancient Israel by men or women.

Right... That's why God told the Levites to wear them and the three Hebrew boys wore them. I guess they are neither ancient nor Israeli men.

There can be little doubt other Hebrew men wore them as well. Still looking for that ONE godly female to have worn them. The conspicuous and total lack of evidence suggests you have none.

Keep twisting and squirming. Its sad but entertaining.

The fact remains:
God told the Levites to wear them and we know three godly young men wore them.

Women? ZERO

It's nice to know that your wife "wears the pants in your family".

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Bible chapter and verse please. The three Hebrews in Daniel were captives and were wearing Babylonian trousers which were common in Babylon. They were captives. Captives were often castrated and assimilated.

Archeology. Pants were imported from other cultures.

Let me get this straight. It sounds like, you are suggesting that three godly young men that refused the kings meat and refused to bow before an image, even though their life depended on it, were strong enough to refuse that stuff BUT when it came to pants they sinned by wearing Babylonian garments.

Wow!!! That is reaching far and wide to try to distance yourself from the truth. Hey, that's okay. You can smoke peyote and sing "Spirit in the Sky" with whomever you wish.

The truth is those three godly young men refused the kings meat because it was wrong. They also refused to bow before an image because it was wrong. However, men wearing pants is NOT wrong in any culture much less the Hebrew culture so they wore them. Yet, NO godly woman is ever seen wearing them. So go ahead and try some more mental calisthenics - you know, those mental gymnastics you have been doing that has been so entertaining. When you are done, the Bible will still say the same thing: godly men wore pants and godly women did NOT.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I challenge the readers to look up the attire of ancient Israel. There wasn't much difference between male and female articles of clothing. What few differences they had were in relation to length, softer fabrics for women, and women wore more colorful attire. Israelite women also wore traditional jewelry and veils.

Those who would argue that Israelite men wore trousers are often the same preachers who argue that Jesus never wore a beard.
This is just a stupid obfuscation. Aquila says "don't believe anyone" then "poisons the well" with this comment. In other words he does not want anyone to really believe anything different from him so he launches an ad hominem attack against those who would disagree with him.

Look it up, yourself. Don't believe either of us, verify it yourself.

Yes, hear the word of God.
Godly men wore pants. Godly women did not.

Originally Posted by Pliny

Daniel 3:21 and 3:27 are fascinating.
(Dan 3:21 KJV) Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.

According to JFB, Babylonian clothing consisted of long "pantaloons", observe:

JFB
Daniel 3:21
coats ... hosen ... hats — Herodotus [1.195] says that the Babylonian costume consisted of three parts: (1) wide, long pantaloons; (2) a woollen shirt; (3) an outer mantle with a girdle round it. So these are specified [Gesenius], “their pantaloons, inner tunics (hosen, or stockings, are not commonly worn in the East), and outer mantles.” Their being cast in so hurriedly, with all their garments on, enhanced the miracle in that not even the smell of fire passed on their clothes, though of delicate, inflammable material.

JFB insists these men were wearing pants.

Albert Barnes cites Gesenius in describing the "coats" as pants, observe:
[Barnes] The word rendered “coats,” is in the margin rendered “mantles.” The Chaldee word (סרבלין sarbâlı̂yn) means, according to Gesenius, the long and wide pantaloons which are worn by the Orientals, from סרבל sarbēl, to cover.

Thus, two commentators agree that they were wearing pants. Some translators even chose to use pants in their translations.

The translators of the ABP and ERV chose to use pants or pantaloons in their translations.
Dan 3:21 (ABP) Then those men were shackled with their pantaloons,G4552.1 G1473 and tiaras, and leggings, and their garments. And they were thrown into the midst of the [2furnace 3of fire 1burning],

(Dan 3:21 ERV) So Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were tied up and thrown into the hot furnace. They were wearing their robes, pants, cloth caps, and other clothes.


Then, there are the scholars that translated the Hebrew into Greek in the LXX.
Daniel 3:21 (LXX) Then those men were bound with their coats, and caps, and hose, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace

LXX+
Dan 3:21 τοτεG5119 ADV οιG3588 T-NPM ανδρεςG435 N-NPM εκεινοιG1565 D-NPM επεδηθησανV-API-3P συνG4862 PREP τοιςG3588 T-DPN σαραβαροιςN-DPN αυτωνG846 D-GPM καιG2532 CONJ τιαραιςN-DPF καιG2532 CONJ περικνημισιN-DPF καιG2532 CONJ ενδυμασινG1742 N-DPN αυτωνG846 D-GPM καιG2532 CONJ εβληθησανG906 V-API-3P ειςG1519 PREP μεσονG3319 A-ASM τηςG3588 T-GSF καμινουG2575 N-GSF τουG3588 T-GSN πυροςG4442 N-GSN τηςG3588 T-GSF καιομενηςG2545 V-PMPGS

H5622
סרבּל (Aramaic) (LXX – σαραβαροις)
sarbal
Dictionary of the Targumim, Talmud Bavli, Talmud Yerushalmi and Midrashic Literature, Marcus Jastrow, 1022a – Pers. Trousers.

Dan 3:27 And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats (σαραβαρα LXX) changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.

LXX+
Dan 3:27 [3:94] καιG2532 CONJ συναγονταιG4863 V-PMI-3P οιG3588 T-NPM σατραπαιN-NPM καιG2532 CONJ οιG3588 T-NPM στρατηγοιG4755 N-NPM καιG2532 CONJ οιG3588 T-NPM τοπαρχαιN-NPM καιG2532 CONJ οιG3588 T-NPM δυνασταιG1413 N-NPM τουG3588 T-GSM βασιλεωςG935 N-GSM καιG2532 CONJ εθεωρουνG2334 V-IAI-3P τουςG3588 T-APM ανδραςG435 N-APM οτιG3754 CONJ ουκG3364 ADV εκυριευσενG2961 V-AAI-3S τοG3588 T-NSN πυρG4442 N-NSN τουG3588 T-GSN σωματοςG4983 N-GSN αυτωνG846 D-GPM καιG2532 CONJ ηG3588 T-NSF θριξG2359 N-NSF τηςG3588 T-GSF κεφαληςG2776 N-GSF αυτωνG846 D-GPM ουκG3364 ADV εφλογισθηG5394 V-API-3S καιG2532 CONJ ταG3588 T-NPN σαραβαραN-NPN αυτωνG846 D-GPM ουκG3364 ADV ηλλοιωθηV-API-3S καιG2532 CONJ οσμηG3744 N-NSF πυροςG4442 N-GSN ουκG3364 ADV ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S ενG1722 PREP αυτοιςG846 D-DPM

Ancient Greek to English Dictionary
σαραβαρα
A loose trousers worn by Scythians, Antiph.201; also = Aramaic sarbālîn, LXX, Thd.Da.3.27 (cf. 21). (Prob. Persian shalvâr or shulvâr (braccae).)


There can be no doubt that a multiplicity of scholars agree, the three Hebrew boys thrown into the fiery furnace were indeed wearing pants.

Now, once again, I ask for someone to demonstrate where a single godly woman wore pants.
The silence has been deafening...

No matter how many gymnastics Aquila takes the bottom line is the same:
Godly men wore pants. Godly women did not.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Pants are nowhere in view seeing that neither male or female wore trousers in ancient Israel.

This is a patently FALSE statement. Were the Levites part of ancient Israel? The answer is yes.
Were the three Hebrew young men part of ancient Israel? The answer is once again yes.

Since Aquila has been shown this MULTIPLE times, it causes a person to pause and ask why continue to post nonsense that has been proven false on multiple occasions.
Did he not read the posts? This seems unlikely since he has responded to them.
So why continue to spread false information? Why spread lies?

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Challenge the readers? Pilny did a magnificent job as well as Esaias of supplying ample amounts of proof concerning this subject. Yet, this isn't really about information, research, or even having Jesus Christ Himself come down and grab you by your head to tell you that only men wore pants. Because as we can plainly see, people like you don't want proof, we could open our veins and bleed to death proving our case. Yet, you (and those like you) would discount the rivers of blood. No, no my boy, you see you live in your own private Idaho, where everything is dictated by the world around you. Were we talking about beards? Did we ever mention one word about beards? Are you getting upset because you completely ran out of road?
No more kilts? No more eskimos wearing seal skins? Bro, there isn't a prohibition against beards or a command for beards. But we have clear scripture that if a woman dresses like a man she is an abomination and visa versa.

Well said.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Aquila

There are two kinds of people in this world. Those with beards...and women. How can you worship Jesus looking like a smooth faced gay Roman? Lol

Start another thread. Keep on point. Well if you had one...

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You're an idiot.

Ran out of gymnastics and went straight for the ad hominem attack.

Idiot(from Dictionary.com)

Informal. an utterly foolish or senseless person:
If you think you can wear that outfit to a job interview and get hired, you're an idiot!

Hmmm... Maybe it fits. But who is the real idiot?

The one with Bible on their side or the one who dreams up Eskimo pies while smoking peyote and singing Spirit in the Sky?

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Daniel verse, typical attire in Babylon.

High Priest, breeches. Boxer like attire worn under the robe.

Thus these verses prove NOTHING in this debate.

Daniel verse: Godly young men who stood against all forms of sin, even to death, wore pants.
God TOLD the Levites to wear them.

It proves nothing only to those who refuse to accept the Bible. The mind is never so resourceful as when it is justifying itself. Thank you for the object lesson on self-justification.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Pliny

Right... That's why God told the Levites to wear them and the three Hebrew boys wore them. I guess they are neither ancient nor Israeli men.

The fact that God had to command the Levites to wear breeches to cover their nakedness testifies to the fact that they weren't common attire. Else they would have been wearing them anyway. So, they do not represent the average Israelite male. They were an inner garment, worn under their robes, that only went just past the knee. Prove me wrong.

The three Hebrews weren't even in Israel. They were captives serving the royal court of Babylon. They were dressed in the appropriate Babylonian attire, which included trousers. They even had Babylonian names. So, they do not represent the average Israelite male, back in Israel. Prove me wrong.

There can be little doubt other Hebrew men wore them as well. Still looking for that ONE godly female to have worn them. The conspicuous and total lack of evidence suggests you have none.

No one will find a reference to the average Israelite male or female wearing pants, because pants weren't common attire for either in Israelite culture. Prove me wrong.

Keep twisting and squirming. Its sad but entertaining.

The fact remains:
God told the Levites to wear them and we know three godly young men wore them.

Both examples are dismissed. Besides only one example actually describes actual trousers that could have been worn outside a robe. Prove me wrong.

Women? ZERO

You'll not find the average male or female wearing pants as common attire in ancient Israel.

It's nice to know that your wife "wears the pants in your family".

I think you're just not wanting to surrender your ladies Jordache, with the pretty pink sequins in a heart shape on the behind. After all, you are the one demanding that they be considered men's attire. Not me.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Pliny

Let me get this straight. It sounds like, you are suggesting that three godly young men that refused the kings meat and refused to bow before an image, even though their life depended on it, were strong enough to refuse that stuff BUT when it came to pants they sinned by wearing Babylonian garments.

Wow!!! That is reaching far and wide to try to distance yourself from the truth. Hey, that's okay. You can smoke peyote and sing "Spirit in the Sky" with whomever you wish.

The truth is those three godly young men refused the kings meat because it was wrong. They also refused to bow before an image because it was wrong. However, men wearing pants is NOT wrong in any culture much less the Hebrew culture so they wore them. Yet, NO godly woman is ever seen wearing them. So go ahead and try some more mental calisthenics - you know, those mental gymnastics you have been doing that has been so entertaining. When you are done, the Bible will still say the same thing: godly men wore pants and godly women did NOT.

When you're taken captive, marched out of your homeland, taught a different language, stripped of everything you own, are most likely castrated, given a Babylonian name, put to work in the royal court, and given the appropriate attire for your job, you do what you must. But there comes a point wherein you draw the line, especially when it involves bowing to an idol.