Receiving The Holy Spirit & Speaking In Tongues

[n david]

Originally Posted by Johnson

God did not write anything in any of you're hearts.

*your

[Esaias]

This looks like w4yne posting under another alias. He even posted the exact same question: "If Jesus is the Lamb who is the Lion" etc.

Admin needs to clean things up around here...

[Johnson]

Originally Posted by Esaias

This looks like w4yne posting under another alias. He even posted the exact same question: "If Jesus is the Lamb who is the Lion" etc.

Admin needs to clean things up around here...

I will post on here whenever I so desire.

And there is nothing you are anyone else can do about it.

As long as the Lord is willing to have me do so.

[Johnson]

All the Christian forums are my hunting grounds.

They are like this world....over run with the children of the devil.

[Johnson]

And by the way...
all that ........ you are doing thinking you are of God...

is nothing but nonsense to God.

You too are going to hell.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Johnson

And by the way...
all that ........ you are doing thinking you are of God...

is nothing but nonsense to God.

You too are going to hell.

Go take your meds.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by covey

LOL. You offere ZERO explanation of your case. Just because you answered the questions according to your belief, it does not prove you are correct. The questions were simple to answer correctly.

1 Cor 8:6 There is one God, the Father (only one that can be God. Identify Him and you have the Father).
1 Cor 8:6 The Lord is only one Lord, He is identified as Jesus Christ s the 'one Lord"
Dt 6: The Lord is God. -There you have it. " The Lord is God the Father. The Lord has been identified as Jesus Christ. Therefore, Jesus Christ is God the father and the Lord. Thomas understood this that is why in John 20:28 he called Jesus "his Lord and His God". The one Thomas knew as Jesus was his one Lord and one God. God is one in Jesus Christ!

I don't blame you for not answering again. I wouldn't either if I was in your shoes, with your attitude. You arer wrong and you cannot prove otherwise.

He is not interested in debate. This is a poster who has invented an amazing amount of screen names here on AFF, all of which have been banned, due to his proud and hateful ways. You won't have any kind of gainful interaction with him.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by covey

Almost, but you need to remember the sound can only be heard from speech and tongue, because, both, the Spirit, and those born of the Spirit are not inanimate things. Since everyone born of the Spirit is a living thing, the sound must come from the tongue / speech. We know from the book of Acts, the sound of the Spirit speaking is heard from the tongues of everyone born of the Spirit.

I agree that the sound in this passage is of someone being born of the spirit. However, I am not convinced that it has to be speaking in another language, or tongues, as there are also so many passages that list that someone is saved when they call on the name of the Lord.

Originally Posted by covey

Yes, you got it. I appreciate your noble spirit. All of us get caught up studying to prove what we believe is true, instead of examining the Scriptures to see what is true. We always need to be on guard, because it is easy to do. Few people even recognize this. The Berean's in Acts 4 are called more noble than others that rejected what the apostles said without examining the Scriptures to see what they said was true.

I want to be found to be noble, so I can be part of the nobility of the Kingdom of God. Don't you?

Indeed, that is why I find debates like this so helpful. If I believe something, I want to find it true beyond a shadow of a doubt, and many times discussions such as happen here on AFF show entirely different perspective than you have by your own study. I call it iron sharpening iron, and I am thankful to interact with someone as kind as yourself in debate, even while we may not always agree, we can still discuss without attacking the character of a person, which happens so often in debates.

Originally Posted by covey

Here again, it is a mistake to say something didn't happen, because it doesn't describe it as it happened. The fact that it is revealed later is enough to know Paul Spoke in tongues when he received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. However, I don't want you to "just" take my word for it. Therefore, I shall point to Acts 19:3-8, where Paul asked if the disciples received the baptism of the Holy Spirit when they believed. Paul the explained that Jesus said he would baptize them with the Holy Spirit and laid his hand on them and they spoke in tongues and prophesied- See Acts 19:6 "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. Do you really believe Paul did not speak in tongues when he believed?

I really don't know. I don't know why all 3 accounts of Paul's conversion never mentioned the tongues, not one of them did. So that for me is a big question mark. I understand the thought that just because it is not mentioned doesn't mean it didn't happen. But, I find it interesting that Paul himself, in all three accounts that he used to share as a witness to the gospel never ONCE mentioned speaking in tongues. Don't you find that strange? There is no doubt he later spoke in tongues, as he mentioned it in his writings. But we don't know the timeline of when he began to speak in tongues, he himself does not tell us that.

Originally Posted by covey

It is true that when we call on the name of the Lord we will be saved and it is true if we believe Jesus Christ is the son of God we w ill be saved, but the question is, what does it mean to believe Jesus Christ? If we don't believe what he said and obey all that he commanded us to obey, how can we truly say we believe and are saved?

Yes, I believe action must accompany belief. Otherwise, belief is useless. If I say a house is on fire, and you believe me, but stay in the house, have you believed? So, yes, there is action required in belief. That action, believing on Jesus, is to repent, and to be baptized. That is all the action we can take. The rest is on the Lord, as it His gift that He can pour out, as He chooses.

Originally Posted by covey

By your post here, I know you weren't. With the nobility of a Berean, you examined the Scriptures for the truth.

The only question about what you see that remains is 'Do you see the sound, in this passage, that comes from living things, must be HEARD from speech. The one speaking is the Holy Spirit as it gives the utterance, the one making the sound is EVERYONE one born of the Spirit. The sound is heard from all that are in earshot of the sound be made by the one being born of the Spirit

I do see that it means the voice speaking, and that certainly could be anything that the voice says. In the scripture above you mentioned:

Acts 19:3-8, where Paul asked if the disciples received the baptism of the Holy Spirit when they believed. Paul the explained that Jesus said he would baptize them with the Holy Spirit and laid his hand on them and they spoke in tongues and prophesied- See Acts 19:6 "And when [B]Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.

They spoke with tongues and prophesied. And there are other passages where they spoke with new tongues and glorified Jesus, with their voice. So it seems this "sound of the spirit" as being the voice, yes. But not just new tongues, but glorifying God, prophesying and calling on the name of the Lord also.

[covey]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I agree that the sound in this passage is of someone being born of the spirit. However, I am not convinced that it has to be speaking in another language, or tongues, as there are also so many passages that list that someone is saved when they call on the name of the Lord.

Please go back and look at the definition of the Greek word for sound in this passage. It simply cannot be a sound of anything other than speech by the Spirit. Anyone can praise God with or without the Holy Spirit. No one can speak the utterance of the Holy Spirit, except the Holy Spirit.

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Indeed, that is why I find debates like this so helpful. If I believe something, I want to find it true beyond a shadow of a doubt, and many times discussions such as happen here on AFF show entirely different perspective than you have by your own study. I call it iron sharpening iron, and I am thankful to interact with someone as kind as yourself in debate, even while we may not always agree, we can still discuss without attacking the character of a person, which happens so often in debates.

I agree with you 100% and i appreciate your gentleness and kindness as well.

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I really don't know. I don't know why all 3 accounts of Paul's conversion never mentioned the tongues, not one of them did. So that for me is a big question mark. I understand the thought that just because it is not mentioned doesn't mean it didn't happen. But, I find it interesting that Paul himself, in all three accounts that he used to share as a witness to the gospel never ONCE mentioned speaking in tongues. Don't you find that strange? There is no doubt he later spoke in tongues, as he mentioned it in his writings. But we don't know the timeline of when he began to speak in tongues, he himself does not tell us that.

Please re-read John 19;3-8. Paul was specific about receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. After reading it, ask yourself why Paul would ask "if" the received the Holy Spirit when they believed, instead telling them "did you know you received the Holy Spirit when you believed?". Why would Paul lay hands on them to receive something they already had?

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

, I believe action must accompany belief. Otherwise, belief is useless. If I say a house is on fire, and you believe me, but stay in the house, have you believed? So, yes, there is action required in belief. That action, believing on Jesus, is to repent, and to be baptized. That is all the action we can take. The rest is on the Lord, as it His gift that He can pour out, as He chooses

i agree with your statement, however we need to seek that which we have not received. It is by faith, believing in the promise of being baptized with the Holy Spirit that we must continue to seek if we have not received it. It does not matter if it takes twenty years. It is for you, your children and all of us.

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I do see that it means the voice speaking, and that certainly could be anything that the voice says. In the scripture above you mentioned:

The speaking must be by the Spirit, the sound is from the voice of everyone born of the Spirit.

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

They spoke with tongues and prophesied. And there are other passages where they spoke with new tongues and glorified Jesus, with their voice. So it seems this "sound of the spirit" as being the voice, yes. But not just new tongues, but glorifying God, prophesying and calling on the name of the Lord also.

Speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance does not stop us from also praising God and rejoicing by the will of our own spirit. In fact it is a very normal reaction for one to be emotionally charged after receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

For me, John 3:8 is clear that the sound must come though speech. On the DOP and everyday since, the sound of the birth of the Spirit in everyone that is born of the Spirit has come through the sound of speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance.

[jediwill83]

I never knew that Paul received the HG on the Damascus road. I thought that had happened when he was baptized by Anninias.