End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Esther

Im not real sure but I think there were 12 male Jews. No Samaritians.

So how many female Jews were called?
We have been told how great they were so how many were chosen to be Apostles? What, don't you think there were women alive then? Are you suggesting they were inferior to the other Jewish women of antiquity? Was Phebe not around or Mary the mother of Jesus or Pricilla? Surely one of them could have been an Apostle but NO. They were not called.

So how many Jewish women were called? The answer for proponents of women preachers is a startling ZERO! Jesus must have been a chauvinist.

Paul told Titus to ordain elders in every city and qualifies the elder as the husband of 1 wife (Titus 1:5-16). Elders were the leaders of the churches.

To those who propose women preachers this is a startling discovery since not a single female could meet the qualification to be an elder.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Esther

JR and Pliny, where do you stand on Apostles and prophets today?

Doesn't matter because if there are not any save those called by Jesus then there are no women among them. If there are women could not be qualified inasmuch as they cannot be qualified to be an elder. Therefore, it is a straw-man argument and fails the logic test.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by rdp

Ahhhh yes, good ol' Frank Viola & his horrid information. You should be plumb embarrassed that you even appealed to his writings - they are easily proven erroneous (in fact, I eventually just quit reading his book it was so terrible).


You really could use some classes in the discipline of critical analysis !

I tried to read that fiction and it was very hard to get through it. So far it has been full of nothing but emotional appeals and ad-hominem attacks.

The author of that claptrap states that all interpretations of those two "limiting" scriptures, which according to him are obscucre LOL!, have shortcomings and he admits his own does a swell. But before stating that the author pompously declares his word is the final word. What a pompous blowhard!

The fact is there is nothing obscure about those passages, except to those who refuse to acknowledge their existence. They are in perfect harmony with the other scriptures that state clearly an elder or bishop are to be husbands of 1 wife. They also harmonize with the ministry of Jesus Christ who could have called any woman he wanted but instead chose 12 men. Additionally it harmonizes with the entirety of scripture which multitudes have refused to acknowledge.

The author also tried to say the Law was abolished which in fact it is not. Jesus fulfilled the Law and states emphatically that I came NOT to destroy the Law (Mt. 5:17). Paul even said that love is the fulfilling of the Law (Gal. 4:14). Are we to believe that we are not to love since according to that author the Law was abolished? Also, if it was abolished why did God say He would write it upon our hearts (Jer. 31:31-33). In other words the author has no idea what he is talking about. He simply WANTS women to be able to be elders...

Yeah it is difficult to read the claptrap.

[Roxanne Murphy]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'd like to share something to help clarify what I'm saying. I was taught the following about "preaching"...

Preaching: 2782 // khrugma // kerugma // kay'-roog-mah //

from 2784 ; TDNT - 3:714,430; n n

AV - preaching 8; 8

1) that which is proclaimed by a herald or public crier, a
proclamation by herald
2) in the NT the message or proclamation of the heralds of God or
Christ

"Preaching" is therefore a general and all encompassing term for a NT message, or proclamation, that may include any or all of the following:

Prophesy
Teaching
Admonition
Rebuke
Exhortation
Testimony

With this in mind, in a preacher's "preaching" they might prophesy, teach, admonish, rebuke, testify, and/or exhort. Technically one can even give a witness while "preaching", seeing that any one of these elements "witness" to Christ's gospel, power, doctrine, or authority. A preacher's "preaching" might include any one of these elements... or even all of them.

Thus, if a woman can be permitted to "prophesy" in the gathering ...her "prophesying" is indeed a form of "preaching" and is perfectly permissible.

Do you disagree with this? If so, share what you were taught.

I agree, so does the scripture, and so does my former Bible school teacher, Dr. Daniel Seagraves. I remember how, at the beginning of my freshman year at CLC, there were some zealous young men who got their lederhosen all in bunches over a female student who was 1) a theology major and 2) she was nominated to be the junior class president. These young men became rather, oh, obnoxious with their objections. So, Brother Seagraves took them on a hermeneutical expedition through the New Testament and soundly reproved their foolishness. As a mere freshman, I was privileged to hear the recap of the lesson in our theology of the church class taught by Brother Seagraves. So the young lady remained in the theology program unmolested and she was elected junior class president. I will take the sound teaching of Daniel Seagravex over the copy and paste, pulled out of context mishmash that keeps being dumped out here by ***Edited by Admin***

[Roxanne Murphy]

Originally Posted by RJR

Hello somebody.

Originally Posted by rdp

You are dead wrong. The Greek verb translated "Prophesy" is lexically defined as:


In the NT, prophesy (4395 /prophēteúō) occurs 28 times, usually of forthtelling which reveals the mind (message) of God in a particular situation. 4395 /prophēteúō ("prophesy") can also refer to foretelling, i.e. predicting the future as the Lord reveals it (http://www.helpsbible.org/).


Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon:


b. with the idea of foretelling future events pertaining especially to the kingdom of God: Matthew 11:13; Acts 2:17, 18; Acts 21:9; περί τίνος, Matthew 15:7; Mark 7:6; 1 Peter 1:10; ἐπί τίνι, over i. e. concerning one (see ἐπί, B. 2 f. β'., p. 234a), Revelation 10:11; εἰς τινα (i. e. Christ), the Epistle of Barnabas 5, 6 [ET]; προφητεύειν followed by λέγων, with the words uttered by the prophet, Jude 1:14; followed by ὅτι, John 11:51.

c. to utter forth, declare, a thing which can only be known by divine revelation: Matthew 26:68; Mark 14:65; Luke 22:64, cf. 7:39; John 4:19.

d. to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or in praise of the divine counsels: Luke 1:67; Acts 19:6 (1 Samuel 10:10, 11; 1 Samuel 19:20, 21, etc.); — or, under the like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others (see προφήτης, II. 1 f.), 1 Corinthians 11:4, 5; 1 Corinthians 13:9; 1 Corinthians 14:1, 3, 4, 5, 24, 31, 39.




**Looking through first-century eyes & the lexical hues above clearly demonstrates that biblical "prophecy" is NOT an exposition from the Scriptures.

If you were an honest person, you would not have stopped your highlighting spree before the rest of the definition of prophesy:

to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others (see προφήτης, II. 1 f.), 1 Corinthians 11:4, 5; 1 Corinthians 13:9; 1 Corinthians 14:1, 3, 4, 5, 24, 31, 39.

But since it disproves your eclectic Greek 'theology', you leave it out and hope nobody notices in the midst of your selectively highlighted partial definitions.

According to what you post here, any person who prophesies (male or female, the Holy Ghost doesn't differentiate) does more than just foretell things under divine inspiration: they also teach, refute, admonish and comfort others. Things your flawed theology reserves to males only, but the Bible does not.

Your theology is at best misinformed, but looks more and more to be a purposeful disregard of whatever does not fit your carefully contrived doctrine.

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Please give another example of what you mean by preach vs. prophesy. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Act 19:6..  ..And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.

I suppose you would feel these individuals who had only moments before heard about the Holy Ghost were now speaking in tongues and preaching. Of course it would not be a stretch in many Pentecostal circles, it is the source of many far out ideas that has even surfaced in this thread, such as women elders.

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Here is what I was taught about the limitations of women....

Limitations on a woman as it relates to ministry at home or in the congregation:

1 Timothy 2:10-12
King James Version (KJV)
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

According to Paul, women must be learners, and are not allowed to be public teachers in the church; for teaching is an office of authority, and the woman must not usurp authority over the man, but is to be in silence. But, notwithstanding this prohibition, good women may and ought to teach their children at home the principles of religion. Timothy from a child had known the holy scriptures; and who should teach him but his mother and grandmother? 2Ti 3:15. Aquila and his wife Priscilla expounded unto Apollos the way of God more perfectly; but then they did it privately, for they took him unto them, Act 18:26. Here are two very good reasons given for the man's authority over the woman, and her subjection to the man, 1Tim 2:13, 1Tim 2:14. Adam was first formed, then Eve; she was created for the man, and not the man for the woman (1Co 11:9); then she was deceived, and brought the man into the transgression

As it relates to the home, a woman is to be godly in her conduct, and learn in silence with all subjection to her husband. She isn't to teach or guide the home, that is the responsibility of "the man" (the husband). When a husband rises up to be the spiritual authority of the home, the woman (wife) should be in silence.

1Ti 5:14..  ..I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully

I am stunned you all keep saying that 1 Tim 2 refers to the women keeping silence in the home and learning with all subjection, and yet 1 Cor. 14:35 states that is where they are to ask their husbands FOR IT A SHAME FOR THEM TO SPEAK IN THE CHURCH! Obviously the exceptions are praying, prophesying and praising in the church. The prohibition is teaching and usurping authority. If you object to this it is you objecting to Bible language and your misunderstanding is with Biblical terms!.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35
King James Version (KJV)
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

God isn't the author of confusion. Therefore gatherings should be conducted decently and be in order. Women are not to be gossiping, privately discussing issues, or asking questions in the midst of the meeting. This would be a disruption. Therefore, the "women" doing this should be silent in the meetings and listen up... even if it's a woman prophesying (preaching). Should the women have any serious questions about the faith, they are not to bog down the gathering with endless questions. Rather, they are to wait and ask their husbands at home. This reinforces a husband's spiritual authority in the home (see 1 Timothy 2:10-12).

1 Timothy 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Since a "bishop" is clearly expected to be the husband of one wife, and no accommodation for women is given, a woman cannot hold the office of bishop (pastor, overseer, elder) in the congregation. Likewise the same rule applies to the office of deacon:

1 Timothy 3:12
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Please tell me if you agree, or share what you were taught.

Prophesying is a gift of the Spirit and is not preaching. It is impossible to preach without exercising some authority. Preaching in 2Tim.4, reproves, rebukes and exhorts.

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Thus... if a woman prophesies in the gathering... it is a form of preaching.

If a woman testifies in gatherings... it is a form of preaching.

If a woman offers any teaching in a gathering (even if primarily to the ladies) ... it is a form of preaching.

If a woman admonishes, exhorts, or rebukes (in any form or fashion) in a gathering... it is a form of preaching.

Therefore, it is incorrect to say that a woman isn't permitted to "preach" in gatherings.

Not one Bible verse is offered in your deductions and not one reputable definition of any terms. Just offering what you think they ought to be.

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Are you saying that Jesus would not have women go out into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature and baptize them? Is that what you are saying? Are you saying that "Go YE therefore" is speaking to men only? Any man? Only Bishops? Only preachers? To whom is that verse speaking??

Context, Context, Context. Who was he instructing in Matt 28:19, hint look at Mat 28:16, and not one woman among those eleven he chose. He was instructing the ministry to teach and baptize. Not one woman in approx. 90 years of Bible history baptized. Guess your understanding must be more of a modern invention.

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Esther

Im not real sure but I think there were 12 male Jews. No Samaritians.

Not one imperative command to the Samaritans to keep silence, or to learn in silence with all subjection, or to not usurp authority over...unlike His commands to the women.