All Trinitarians are Lost!!!!!!!!!!!

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Being cleared of the charges IS salvation

I'm sorry, but it is not. Being re-created and infused with life by the holy Ghost is ultimately salvation. your sins have to be forgiven for that to happen, but Paul was very clear in Titus 3:5........

He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

So how do Paul say God saved us?

But of course, one could argue that God indwelling you by his Spirit is the greatest indication that one has been cleared of the charges.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by seekerman

1) The Spirit of God indwells a person BEFORE they believe, else they would not call upon the Lord Jesus Christ.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.


2) Evidence of the Spirit of God in a person's life, you ask?

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith.

Do you have the evidence, bishop?

The Spirit brings conviction to the sinner, and also brings faith to believe the gospel, but He does not indwell them (make them his home) until they repent and believe.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Originalist

The Spirit brings conviction to the sinner, and also brings faith to believe the gospel, but He does not indwell them (make them his home) until they repent and believe.

Amen

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I'm sorry, but it is not. Being re-created and infused with life by the holy Ghost is ultimately salvation. your sins have to be forgiven for that to happen, but Paul was very clear in Titus 3:5........




So how do Paul say God saved us?

But of course, one could argue that God indwelling you by his Spirit is the greatest indication that one has been cleared of the charges.

I didn't say "ultimately salvation"...

We are all guilty of Sin (the charges). Salvation is being cleared of those charges.

Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Paul regularly employs Legal language to describe our salvation from Sin. So sorry or not, you are wrong

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

believing is a prerequisite to receiving the Spirit

Receiving the Spirit is a prerequisite to calling on Jesus.

1Co 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Originalist

The Spirit brings conviction to the sinner, and also brings faith to believe the gospel, but He does not indwell them (make them his home) until they repent and believe.

No doubt the Spirit brings conviction to the sinner, I agree with you on that. If they haven't received the Holy Spirit then they aren't going to confess Jesus as Lord.

1Co 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Receiving the Spirit is a prerequisite to calling on Jesus.

1Co 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

That's talking about the gifts of the Spirit, not calling on Jesus. Read the context

Believing precedes receiving
Joh 7:39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:13 Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.
Act 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John,
Act 8:15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit,
Act 8:16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 8:17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

Act 19:2 And he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."

Gal 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Gal 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That's talking about the gifts of the Spirit, not calling on Jesus. Read the context

Believing precedes receiving
Joh 7:39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:13 Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.
Act 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John,
Act 8:15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit,
Act 8:16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 8:17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

Act 19:2 And he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."

Gal 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Gal 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

No, that's talking about calling Jesus Lord. Read it again.....

1Co 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

No, that's talking about calling Jesus Lord. Read it again.....

1Co 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

1) You are ignoring the context. It's about the gifts of the Spirit not being saved.

1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed.
1Co 12:2 You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led.
1Co 12:3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit.
1Co 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;
1Co 12:5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord;


2) You totally ignored the scriptures I posted

[Praxeas]

Believing precedes receiving

Joh 7:39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:13 Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.
Act 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John,
Act 8:15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit,
Act 8:16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 8:17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

Act 19:2 And he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."

Gal 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Gal 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith