Just for Bro. Steve, "ALL TRINITARIANS ARE NOT LOST"

crakjak · #1 08-13-2007, 05:44 PM

Trying to recreate the atomphere of FCF!

And O, BTW "endless torment" came from the tormented minds of pagans and the apostate Rome church.

Jesus is the Savior of the whole world, and He will complete all He has purposed.

Hoovie · #2 08-13-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

Trying to recreate the atomphere of FCF!

And O, BTW "endless torment" came from the tormented minds of pagans and the apostate Rome church.

Jesus is the Savior of the whole world, and He will complete all He has purposed.

I don't know that I am the "Bro Steve" in reference... but the title simply states the obvoius. (I rather think it is Steve Epley!)

The other statements are not something that I have conversed much about in the past.

Praxeas · #3 08-13-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

Trying to recreate the atomphere of FCF!

And O, BTW "endless torment" came from the tormented minds of pagans and the apostate Rome church.

Jesus is the Savior of the whole world, and He will complete all He has purposed.

prove "endless torment" came from the minds of pagans and apostate Rome Church.. I hope next you won't be arguing the virgin birth came from Mithra

stmatthew · #4 08-13-2007, 06:13 PM

Amazing that someone could "know" Jesus, yet not "know" him.

Steve Epley · #5 08-13-2007, 07:57 PM

Lost as 2 boys kissing.

crakjak · #6 08-13-2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

prove "endless torment" came from the minds of pagans and apostate Rome Church.. I hope next you won't be arguing the virgin birth came from Mithra

ENDLESS PUNISHMENT OF HEATHEN ORIGIN (Greek mythology)

When the doctrine of endless punishment began to be taught in the Christian Church, it was not derived from the Scriptures, but from the heathen converts to Christianity, who accepted Christ, but who brought with them into their new church that doctrine which had for centuries been taught in heathen lands, but which neither Moses nor Christ accepted. And having received the idea from heathen tradition, it was natural that the early Christians should transfer it to the Bible, and seek to find it there.

That heathen invented this doctrine is undeniable. Much of the Christian understanding of Hell has more to do with Greek mythology than anything from the Bible.

Says Cicero" "It was on this account that the ancients invented those infernal punishments of the dead, to keep the wicked under some awe in this life, who without them, would have no dread of death itself."

Says Polis, the Greek historian: "The multitude is ever fickle and capricious, full of lawless passions and irrational and violent resentments. There is no way left to keep them in order but by the terrors of future punishment, and all the pompous circumstances that attend such fiction! On which account the ancients acted, in my opinion, with great judgment and penetration, when they contrived to bring those notions of the gods and a future state into the popular belief."

Strabo, the Greek geographer and philosopher, says: "it is impossible to govern women and the gross body of the people, and to keep them pious, holy and virtuous, by the precepts of philosophy. This can only be done by the fear of the gods, which is raised and supported by ancient fictions and modern prodigies." And again he says: "The apparatus of the ancient mythologies was an engine which the legislators employed as bugbears to strike a terror into the childish imagination of the multitude."

This horrible heathen dogma sought entrance into the Christian church in vain for the first three centuries after Christ, and though here and there a euthanized Christian announced it, it did not become an accredited Christian doctrine till after more than five centuries. Dr. Edward Beecher candidly confesses that as late as three hundred years after Christ it had hardly obtained a foothold.

He says: "What, then, was the state of facts as to the leading theological schools of the Christian world in the age of Origin and some centuries after? It was, in brief, this: There were at least six theological schools in the church at large. Of these six schools, one, and only one, was decidedly and earnestly in favor of the doctrine of future eternal punishment. One was in favor of the annihilation of the wicked. Two were in favor of the doctrine of universal restoration on the principles of Origen, and two in favor of universal restoration on the principles of Theodore of Mopsuestia."
That is to say, here were four times as many Universalist theological schools, where clergymen were educated, as there were schools in which endless punishment was taught, even as late as A. D. 300. But from that time onward, as darkness increased, the heathen idea was more and more transferred to the sacred page, till it entirely overlaid and obscured the truth. and it was not until the light of the Reformation began to dawn that the profane inscriptions of heathen tradition were erased from the palimpsest of the Scriptures, so that the meaning of the inspired authors could be apprehended. (JW Hanson)

The voice of some that were closer to the time of the early church speak from the grave.

Prove? That is not my objective, rather to stir up discussion and consideration. However there does appear to be good evidence of the doctrine of UR, in the first thru the fifth century, but now obscured by apostasy.

crakjak · #7 08-13-2007, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Amazing that someone could "know" Jesus, yet not "know" him.

Bro. Matt, I was raised as UC as any on this forum, yet I have met and have come to know many "trinitarians" that have personal relationship with the Lord, and I would say know Jesus as profoundly and deeply as any OP I have ever known. We are all lacking in understanding in some areas, their lack just happens to be in an area of which our tradition has no tolerance. Well, I for one have found much grace and tolerance for them, for I know that I have lack as well.

I don't agree completely with alot of Christians, yet if they name the name of Christ and hold the scriptures sacred I have no problem extending the hand of fellowship. If God choose to use me for their growth, so be it, but I will not have an agenda first. I have learned a great deal from Christians of different doctrinal positions, I love them, fellowship and study the word with them, and the Holy Spirit is doing His work on us all.

As I do on this forum, I am not trying to be divisive, just interacting with my brothers and sisters in Christ. Thanks for your responses and kindness to my posts.

crakjak · #8 08-13-2007, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Lost as 2 boys kissing.

As usual you never disappoint brother.

crakjak · #9 08-13-2007, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

I don't know that I am the "Bro Steve" in reference... but the title simply states the obvious. (I rather think it is Steve Epley!)

The other statements are not something that I have conversed much about in the past.

It was an open invitation, and yes the title is the obvious for some of us, yet not for many. This thread was prompted by Bro. Epley's "I miss FCF thread, thought this thread would make him feel better."

Thanks for your response, I respect your family's courage on the TV program, well done and with class.

Hoovie · #10 08-13-2007, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

It was an open invitation, and yes the title is the obvious for some of us, yet not for many. This thread was prompted by Bro. Epley's "I miss FCF thread, thought this thread would make him feel better."

Thanks for your response, I respect your family's courage on the TV program, well done and with class.

Thanx CJ!