The Development of the Trinity

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Hi Mizpeh,

Scripture is not forthcoming about what knowledge those in Abraham's bosom (including Abraham!) possessed. We of course know about the conversation Jesus held with Moses and Elijah on the Mt. of Transfiguration. And we know Jesus "preached unto the spirits in prison" (1Pet 3:19).

When exactly did Abraham rejoice to see Christ's "day", and which "day" was that? His birth? His baptism? It simply doesn't elaborate. Any guesses?

Do you think that Abraham was given a vision of Christ?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Do you think that Abraham was given a vision of Christ?

And, did Abraham eat with Christ a few thousand years before His incarnation?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Could be. I imagine people in the OT may have viewed the term Spirit of God that way.

I found an interesting article from the Jewish Encyclopedia regarding the development of the Shekinah within Jewish Intermediary Theology:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...13537-shekinah

Awesome

The Spirit resting on Jesus was Shekinah

Those on Whom the Shekinah Rested. The Shekinah was one of the five things lacking in the Second Temple (Targ. to Hag. i. 8; Yer. Ta'an. 65a, and parallel passages). Shunning the Gentiles, it rested solely among the Israelites (Shab. 22b), and even there only when they numbered at least 2,002 myriads (Ber. 7a; Yeb. 64a; B. B. 15b; comp. Sanh. 105b), confining itself solely to those of this multitude who were of pure and therefore aristocratic lineage (Ḳid. 70b) and who were wise, brave, wealthy, and tall (Shab. 92a; comp. Ned. 38a); but even for such it would not descend into an atmosphere of sadness (Shab. 30b and parallel passages), since there can be no sorrow in the presence of God (Ḥag. 5b); nor should one pray in a sorrowful frame of mind (Ber. 31a).
The polemic attitude which the conception of the Shekinah betrays toward the founder and the ideal of Christianity is unmistakable. The Shekinah rested upon the priests even if they were unclean (Yoma 56b); and if it was lacking, none approached them for an oracle (ib. 75b). Prominent doctors of the Law were considered worthy of the Shekinah, but both their generation. (i.e., their contemporaries) and their place of residence (i.e., in a foreign land) deprived them of its presence (Suk. 28a; B. B. 60a; Soṭah 48b; M. Ḳ. 25a). In all these statements the Shekinah is identical with the Holy Spirit. It was received by thirty-six pious persons (Suk. 45b), a number which recalls the thirty-six nomes of Egypt and their gods. The Shekinah was also believed to be a protection, as is still the case in the night prayer: "on my four sides four angels, and above my head the Shekinah of God" (comp. Ḳid. 31a). The Shekinah is found at the head of the sick (Shab. 12b) and at the right hand of man (Targ. to Ps. xvi. 8). Pharaoh's daughter saw it at the side of Moses (Soṭah 11a; comp. Targ. to Judges vi. 13), and it spoke with the prophet Jonah twice (Zeb. 98a), with Adam, with the serpent (Bek. 8a; Shab. 87a; Pes. 87b et passim), and with others.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Do you think that Abraham was given a vision of Christ?

Abraham was somehow "in the know" to be able to rejoice at Christ's day. I'm going to add this to the list of questions I'd like answered when I go home. hehe

[Michael The Disciple]

I thought people here understood that Christ was the God of Abraham?

[Praxeas]

And?

[Michael The Disciple]

Is there a correct, biblical doctrine of the Logos? I believe there is, and John addressed it in the Prologue of his Gospel. The Logos is the immanent self-expression of God. How does a transcendent God, whose very thoughts are so far above ours (Is 55:8-9), communicate with us? By expressing himself in a way which we CAN understand. This is the Logos: God's self-expression.

In his Prologue, the Apostle John was re-capturing and re-stating the original, biblical Dabar (Hebrew: "Word") motif, over against all Greek and Hellenized-Jewish constructions of prior Logos teachings. Did the Logos originate over a period of time? No, it was with God in the beginning (Jn 1:1). Was the Logos a semi-divine mediator? No, the Logos WAS God!

I agree with this quote. I have not said anything different than this since 1980.

You just dont get the fact that the Logos (which was God) is that self expression that is consistent throughout the Old Testament.

8 For he said , Surely they are my people, children that will not lie : so he was their Saviour . 9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: Isaiah 63:9

Angel means MESSENGER. The self expression, shekinah, dabar is all the same.

Not MANY mere pop up angels.

One ANGEL OF HIS PRESENCE which was the omnipresent eternal Spirit clothing a portion of his eternal life in an angelic form.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I agree with this quote. I have not said anything different than this since 1980.

You just dont get the fact that the Logos (which was God) is that self expression that is consistent throughout the Old Testament.

8 For he said , Surely they are my people, children that will not lie : so he was their Saviour . 9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: Isaiah 63:9

Angel means MESSENGER. The self expression, shekinah, dabar is all the same.

Not MANY mere pop up angels.

One ANGEL OF HIS PRESENCE which was the omnipresent eternal Spirit clothing a portion of his eternal life in an angelic form.

I doubt it's that someone does not "get it". It seems to be they just disagree with you.

[Timmy]

The development of the Trinity is all well and good. But what I want to know about is the development of the Schminity.