The Development of the Trinity

[thesonofdavid]

To all: Re a new book:
The Development of the Trinity: The Evolution of a New Doctrine

The book is finally out! It is the tip of the iceberg of over 7 years of serious study on the graduate school level. My M.A. is in church history.

This was accepted as "sound" historically by the Baptist seminary. The school now has a copy of the book. It is published---and featured on the opening page "new works" of Pentecostal Publishing House. (pentecostalpublsihing.com)

But....I need help to get the book and its message out to pastors and churches. We in the OP have not had a solid answer of how the preexistence of Christ and related issues evolved. It is tremendously influential to trinitarian pastors. But it will work if we understand this first. If anyone can help spread the word, that is great.

I might open up a webs site where both those that agree and those that want to challenge me (us) can write in. I an not computer savvy enough so will have to get some help.

Anyway, enjoy the book and write back with response. You can get a download at Amazon.com, or a free sample of it at Barnes and Noble.

I am available for seminars in this and related (church history, oneness) issues, especially for pastors and ministers. Have taught this at Gateway Bible School on-line and other schools in person.

God bless and use us!

Bro Davidson
(619 955 8685)

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by thesonofdavid

To all: Re a new book:
The Development of the Trinity: The Evolution of a New Doctrine

The book is finally out! It is the tip of the iceberg of over 7 years of serious study on the graduate school level. My M.A. is in church history.

This was accepted as "sound" historically by the Baptist seminary. The school now has a copy of the book. It is published---and featured on the opening page "new works" of Pentecostal Publishing House. (pentecostalpublsihing.com)

But....I need help to get the book and its message out to pastors and churches. We in the OP have not had a solid answer of how the preexistence of Christ and related issues evolved. It is tremendously influential to trinitarian pastors. But it will work if we understand this first. If anyone can help spread the word, that is great.

I might open up a webs site where both those that agree and those that want to challenge me (us) can write in. I an not computer savvy enough so will have to get some help.

Anyway, enjoy the book and write back with response. You can get a download at Amazon.com, or a free sample of it at Barnes and Noble.

I am available for seminars in this and related (church history, oneness) issues, especially for pastors and ministers. Have taught this at Gateway Bible School on-line and other schools in person.

God bless and use us!

Bro Davidson
(619 955 8685)

You went to Bethel? Did you get to talk to Greg Boyd about Oneness Pentecostal doctrine or about the development of the Trinity?

[Praxeas]

Christ DID pre-exist

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Christ DID pre-exist

More details and scriptures, please.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Christ DID pre-exist

Oneness understands that Christ existed before coming to Earth as God The Father. The controversy is how he existed as the LOGOS. That is where modern Oneness is weak.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Rose

More details and scriptures, please.

Jesus Christ said Before Abraham was, I am.

Is Jesus "God"? If so then Jesus pre-existed

[Sam]

Originally Posted by thesonofdavid

To all: Re a new book:
The Development of the Trinity: The Evolution of a New Doctrine

The book is finally out! It is the tip of the iceberg of over 7 years of serious study on the graduate school level. My M.A. is in church history.

This was accepted as "sound" historically by the Baptist seminary. The school now has a copy of the book. It is published---and featured on the opening page "new works" of Pentecostal Publishing House. (pentecostalpublsihing.com)

But....I need help to get the book and its message out to pastors and churches. We in the OP have not had a solid answer of how the preexistence of Christ and related issues evolved. It is tremendously influential to trinitarian pastors. But it will work if we understand this first. If anyone can help spread the word, that is great.

I might open up a webs site where both those that agree and those that want to challenge me (us) can write in. I an not computer savvy enough so will have to get some help.

Anyway, enjoy the book and write back with response. You can get a download at Amazon.com, or a free sample of it at Barnes and Noble.

I am available for seminars in this and related (church history, oneness) issues, especially for pastors and ministers. Have taught this at Gateway Bible School on-line and other schools in person.

God bless and use us!

Bro Davidson
(619 955 8685)

So, the Baptists like it and consider it "sound" and the UPC likes it enough to offer it in their catalog digitally and in paper. How did you accomplish that?

[samuelofisrael]

[QUOTE=thesonofdavid;1175744]To all: Re a new book:
The Development of the Trinity: The Evolution of a New Doctrine

The book is finally out! It is the tip of the iceberg of over 7 years of serious study on the graduate school level. My M.A. is in church history.

This was accepted as "sound" historically by the Baptist seminary. The school now has a copy of the book. It is published---and featured on the opening page "new works" of Pentecostal Publishing House. (pentecostalpublsihing.com)

But....I need help to get the book and its message out to pastors and churches. We in the OP have not had a solid answer of how the preexistence of Christ and related issues evolved. It is tremendously influential to trinitarian pastors. But it will work if we understand this first. If anyone can help spread the word, that is great.



I somehow doubt the mainstream "Baptists" receive the findings [theories] of the author as "sound" in that they agree with the traditional "Oneness" POV. Rather they most likely agree that it is sound in the "historically developmental" sense. I know of no Baptist association, fellowship or gathering that embraces the UPC concept of the Godhead, Person and Work of Yeshua Messiah. That is, that they agree He was the Father clothed in the tabrenacle of the Son in the sense the Oneness describe Him.

Yet, to a point it is the truth but only as revealed in Holy Writ and this is the struggle. My point is that NONE have the total and absolutely accurate exegesis of what is called the 'Godhead' but that of the many dissenting groups.

Clearly the God of all creation and the Creator of Man is ONE. It can be no other way IF Holy Writ is received. And to be truthful I know of not a single trinitarian or Tri-Unitarian who believes otherwise. This subject will be cast about until the Day of the Lord and even then we may not understand it as we might. Strident opinions, papers, books, blogs, the casting of dust in the air does not mean one has "that" absolute truth they desire, it means they are on their way to the Celestial City.

Isn't it somehow humbling and to some extent, discouraging to know you [I] are yet to learn many things while on the perpetual "destroy the trinitarians" objective? Doesn't anyone ever get weary of nonsense, of misrepresenting others such as charging the Trins as "polytheists?" This is why I refuse to entered into lengthy discussion any longer with a spittle flying, voice raising, arm waving fanatic who declares all trinitarians or Tri-Unitarians believe and worship "three gods." It is demeaning for a person to allow such debate to occupy his time and mental hardware knowing the challenge is a never ending, round and round series of largely fruitless discussions.

There are trins who are as unsaved as the demonic host. There are Oneness who will never tread the courts of the King. In effect, the Oneness are as ignorant as the trins in this area of knowledge. What each "think" they know as generated out of minds yet unperfected and eyes yet to fully open is not the same as absolute truth.

Even so, come soon Lord Yeshua.

[Michael The Disciple]

[QUOTE=samuelofisrael;1175856]

Originally Posted by thesonofdavid

To all: Re a new book:
The Development of the Trinity: The Evolution of a New Doctrine

The book is finally out! It is the tip of the iceberg of over 7 years of serious study on the graduate school level. My M.A. is in church history.

This was accepted as "sound" historically by the Baptist seminary. The school now has a copy of the book. It is published---and featured on the opening page "new works" of Pentecostal Publishing House. (pentecostalpublsihing.com)

But....I need help to get the book and its message out to pastors and churches. We in the OP have not had a solid answer of how the preexistence of Christ and related issues evolved. It is tremendously influential to trinitarian pastors. But it will work if we understand this first. If anyone can help spread the word, that is great.



I somehow doubt the mainstream "Baptists" receive the findings [theories] of the author as "sound" in that they agree with the traditional "Oneness" POV. Rather they most likely agree that it is sound in the "historically developmental" sense. I know of no Baptist association, fellowship or gathering that embraces the UPC concept of the Godhead, Person and Work of Yeshua Messiah. That is, that they agree He was the Father clothed in the tabrenacle of the Son in the sense the Oneness describe Him.

Yet, to a point it is the truth but only as revealed in Holy Writ and this is the struggle. My point is that NONE have the total and absolutely accurate exegesis of what is called the 'Godhead' but that of the many dissenting groups.

Clearly the God of all creation and the Creator of Man is ONE. It can be no other way IF Holy Writ is received. And to be truthful I know of not a single trinitarian or Tri-Unitarian who believes otherwise. This subject will be cast about until the Day of the Lord and even then we may not understand it as we might. Strident opinions, papers, books, blogs, the casting of dust in the air does not mean one has "that" absolute truth they desire, it means they are on their way to the Celestial City.

Isn't it somehow humbling and to some extent, discouraging to know you [I] are yet to learn many things while on the perpetual "destroy the trinitarians" objective? Doesn't anyone ever get weary of nonsense, of misrepresenting others such as charging the Trins as "polytheists?" This is why I refuse to entered into lengthy discussion any longer with a spittle flying, voice raising, arm waving fanatic who declares all trinitarians or Tri-Unitarians believe and worship "three gods." It is demeaning for a person to allow such debate to occupy his time and mental hardware knowing the challenge is a never ending, round and round series of largely fruitless discussions.

There are trins who are as unsaved as the demonic host. There are Oneness who will never tread the courts of the King. In effect, the Oneness are as ignorant as the trins in this area of knowledge. What each "think" they know as generated out of minds yet unperfected and eyes yet to fully open is not the same as absolute truth.

Even so, come soon Lord Yeshua.

Hi Sam,

You could not be more wrong. When one understands the doctrine of Christ, Yeshua being both the Father and the Son it is the greatest truth there is. Only the truth that Eloah exists is greater.

Im going to reach out and guess that if the Baptists find some point of agreement with him maybe it is that both agree that Yeshua pre existed as the Angel Of The Lord. Trins generally accept that difference being of course to them the Angel Of YHWH is the second person of God where true Oneness believes he was the visible image of the one and only El, Eloah, and Elohim.

[Praxeas]

Im concerned this man is publishing a Oneness book that rejects the Deity of Jesus Christ..

How can Jesus Christ be God and NOT pre-exist?

David Bernard

Of course, we know that Jesus as God pre-existed
the Incarnation, since the deity of Jesus is none
other than the Father Himself

The Pre-existence of Jesus
Many passages of Scripture refer to the existence
of Jesus before His human life began. However, the
Bible does not teach us that He existed separate and
apart from the Father. On the contrary, in His deity
He is the Father and Creator. The Spirit of Jesus existed
from all eternity because He is God Himself.
However, the humanity of Jesus did not exist before
the Incarnation, except as a plan in the mind of God.
Therefore, we can say the Spirit of Jesus pre-existed
the Incarnation, but we cannot say the Son pre-existed
the Incarnation in any substantial sense.

John 1:1, 14
is a good summary of the teaching on the pre-existence
of Jesus: “In the beginning was the Word, and
the Word was with God, and the Word was God . . .
And the Word was made flesh. . . .” In other words,
Jesus existed from all eternity as God.

discussion of Hebrews 1, see Chapter 5.)
Let us apply these concepts to various verses of
Scripture that speak of the pre-existence of Christ.
We can understand John 8:58 (“Before Abraham was,
I am”) to be a reference to the pre-existence of Jesus
as the God of the Old Testament

In John 16:28 Jesus said, “I came forth
from the Father.” This, too, refers to His pre-existence
as God.