In all seriousness. If I were in some way affiliated with this church, my concerns would not be with what happened to _____ in the past. That is pretty much come out in the open and someone is paying a serious price.
My interest would be in seeing if the church is making the needed changes to move forward in an open transparent way.
holding on to this, prying into minute details and seeking to know all the dirty laundry can only hurt innocent people and jade the individual against the good folks that never did anything wrong.
I don’t seek any protection for the guilty. They are/will reap a whirlwind and rightfully so. I am sorry for all those who have been hurt. I am sorry for all those who put faith in a man who abused that trust. It just might be time to pick up, move on and find your happy place.
Just a few weeks ago, while talking to someone who had suffered a terrible indignity, anger should never be the motive for action. Anger is a justifiable emotion and may be the catalyst for focus on some wrong. But anger itself must be a transitional emotion that only lasts for a moment. Action should be sourced from reason and reason is not an ally of anger.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Apostle Paul said just because was legal doesn't make it the right thing to do.
Killing unborn babies and homosexuality are the social sins evangelicals pick on a hundred years ago it was liquor and gambling. Gossip is more dangerous and virtually ignored in christianity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
That may be true for some, but not all. I'm pretty sure that for most people who don't participate in homosexual acts, it's because they are not homosexuals -- not because the Bible tells them not to.
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A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson
Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado
Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard
Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
Well, in actuality, a non-profit organization is supposed to make their books public. You can find out the salaries of CEOs and leaders of non profits anywhere from the American Red Cross to the United Way. I have a problem with churches that want to be categorized with such entities but then won't conduct their finances in the same way. It's actually required by law. So what Barry is asking is not beyond the pail. And Barry is correct in stating that since the church finances were veiled in such secrecy it's not unreasonable to try find out information that should be made freely and openly on the Internet. There have been several members of this church who have found out more on this thread than has been revealed. When people act like they have something to hide, that means they probably have something to hide.
i apologize. Maybe, i should have been more detailed about why i was curious about that information. Although i don't attend church there every week, i have made donations to that church and to special projects at that church for quite some time. My father, attended there for several years and that's how i came in contact with the church. I understand all of your concerns about why i'm asking this question. I pay my tithes to my home church, but i also make regular donations to other churches that i have some kind of connection with as well. We're all a part of the church. Money is a sore subject, a very touchy subject in churches. Some people will say just give your money and the rest is between the leaders and god. I disagree...i will agree maybe this isn't the place to discuss this topic but it does need to be discussed. I went to several local churches a few years ago helping out a local homeless shelter and it was surprising to find out how much money was going to church employees vs. How much money was actually being used to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, outreach events etc...i'm not paying my tithes to offerings to the church to provide a place to worship on sunday and to pay 6 or 7 full time salaries of church employees who spend less time doing ministry work than i do with a full time job to support them. I'm paying my tithes and offerings so someone i pass on the street or someone i work with can have the opportunity to hear this great gospel and feel and experience the love of god through his church! I would like to apologize to anyone who is offended by this, and also to our moderator. God bless you all!
I apologize. Maybe, I should have been more detailed about why I was curious about that information. Although I don't attend church there every week, I have made donations to that church and to special projects at that church for quite some time. My father, attended there for several years and that's how I came in contact with the church. I understand all of your concerns about why I'm asking this question. I pay my tithes to my home church, but I also make regular donations to other churches that I have some kind of connection with as well. We're all a part of THE church. Money is a sore subject, a very touchy subject in churches. Some people will say just give your money and the rest is between the leaders and God. I disagree...I will agree maybe this isn't the place to discuss this topic but It does need to be discussed. I went to several local churches a few years ago helping out a local homeless shelter and it was surprising to find out how much money was going to church employees vs. how much money was actually being used to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, outreach events etc...I'm not paying my tithes to offerings to the church to provide a place to worship on Sunday and to pay 6 or 7 full time salaries of church employees who spend less time doing ministry work than I do with a full time job to support them. I'm paying my tithes and offerings so someone I pass on the street or someone I work with can have the opportunity to hear this great Gospel and feel and experience the love of God through his Church! I would like to apologize to anyone who is offended by this, and also to our moderator. God Bless you all!
Good point, but here's how I see it:
Many of the ministers/pastors I know went to some kind of bible college to get training for ministry. A lot of bible colleges are not accredited and those who train for ministry often have to pay out of pocket for their own tuition. From what I understand, many high paying jobs that are afforded to college grads bible college grads cannot work because their college degree is not accredited. Bible college grads not on church payroll generally have poor job prospects because religious degrees are not taken seriously. IMO, if a minister spent time and money acquiring a degree for ministry, I certainly have no qualms with them being on church payroll. They certainly could have gotten a degree in something non ministry related , worked are regular job and not even bothered with ministry.
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Last edited by Evenuntodeath; 12-05-2012 at 05:11 PM.
I'm just curious.... what does everyone feel is an acceptable yearly salary for a pastor? Just ball park. $50,000? $100,000? $50,000 plus house provision? $50,000 plus house plus pay off school loans?
I'm just curious.... what does everyone feel is an acceptable yearly salary for a pastor? Just ball park. $50,000? $100,000? $50,000 plus house provision? $50,000 plus house plus pay off school loans?
Just asking.
Totally depends on the size of the church and the state of the finances. There is no set amount that would be feasible for all churches.
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