Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

[revdtzombik]

Navy Goat,
May I ask what exactly Pentecostal is wihthout being Apostolic??

Thanks
therev

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by revdtzombik

Navy Goat,
May I ask what exactly Pentecostal is wihthout being Apostolic??

Thanks
therev

Hey therev I no longer believe in the 3 step plan of Salvation as taught in the Oneness doctrine. I hold to a tri-unity view of the Godhead. I don't believe that Baptism in Father, Son, Holy Ghost is any less valid than the Baptism in Jesus Name.

I hold to the shed blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and to add anything to that cheapens the Cross and the sin offering that took place at Calvary.

That being said I believe that Salvation is more than saying the sinners prayer and living like the devil and calling yourself saved. I hold to fact that repentance drives everything and Faith is a by product of repentance, as is fruit of the Spirit.

So I don't follow what some would consider the Apostles doctrine and like I said I am Pentecostal.

Mike

[Tlswift2009]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

Hmmmmmm.....I have no problem voicing my opinions on issues that I disagree with concerning church culture or "house rules", but that beiong said - I do believe you can learn from anyone...even a heathen...but in my experience, the depth of worship and preaching, and prayer in an Apostolic Church is second to none.

Mostly I attribute this to the freedom of the Holy Ghost, and the emphasis on praying in the spirit, as well as worshiping in the spirit. I don't, however, believe it is because of certain distinctives, although I do believe that a heart and life that is consecrated to God is powerful.

Anyway..

A Hearty Amen!!!!

[Tlswift2009]

Originally Posted by H Gang

It's this very attitude that so many in the movement are blind to. You probably don't realize what an elitist attitude your statement betrays.

"Second to none"? Really? Compared to what? Are we ranking churches like college football teams trying to determine who's number one? "Freedom of the Holy Ghost"? What's that? You mean the freedom to get crazy, fall out, scream, run, roll on the floor, blurt out in tongues, etc? Was I Corinthians 14 written for nothing? Does the NT offer any instruction and guidance for the use of the gifts of the Spirit for nothing?

"Emphasis on praying in the Spirit"---what does that mean? Does the Bible place an emphasis on praying in the Spirit? Is that what we see consistently throughout the NT? Or maybe an emphasis on faith and preaching the Gospel?

"A life consecrated to God"---another arrogant attitude here. In other words, traditional standards of lifestyle means you are more consecrated than other so-called Christians and power is manifested in your life and in your churches b/c God deems y'all special b/c of your personal sacrifices to be holy.

It's the same old HMH doctrine, we have things happen in our churches that happen nowhere else, because we are better than those other churches, we are deeper spiritually, we have a unique exclusive relationship with God.

It's phony. It's a lie. God is with anyone who is hungry for Him. God is leading and guiding people all over the world with diversities of doctrines and teachings on a lot of fronts. But He will respond to faith period. He will respond to genuine worship whether exuberant or reverent. There are deeply spiritual Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Charismatics, Evangelicals, Lutherans, etc.

I don't understand the need to always place my church above everyone else's or place my experience above everyone else's. I don't know how this attitude crept into the Apostolic movement. From what I read and know of the elders and their history, they were humble men and women, they loved God and they simply wanted to see folks get saved. But now it's "we've got the best preachers, the best music, the best worship, the best doctrine, the best _____________." Its this very haughtiness that leads to the kind of fall we see in Memphis. It's sickening. Get over yourself.

If you love Jesus, you believe in Him and His Word, and you're covered by His blood, you're my brother in Christ. I can agree to disagree over peripheral issues and not belittle you as an inferior.

Genuine worship, faith and OBEDIENCE will lead a person into God's genuine plan of SALVATION for all of mankind....

[Sam]

Originally Posted by ILG

I agree that it is a closed culture, but I always found it odd that PPH sold books written by trinitarians....

and our Apostolic/Pentecostal ministers preach sermons they receive from books written by trinitarians,

and we read from a KJV Bible translated by trinitarians for use in the Anglican Church,

and we sing songs and choruses written by trinitarians,

[Sam]

Originally Posted by H Gang

...It's always been curious to me that heaven rejoices over one soul that repents, according to Jesus, yet Apostolics can't bring themselves to.

Well, the people of Nineveh repented but the prophet Jonah was not happy about it

[H Gang]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

H Gang - - I like you!

Great posts!

Thanks rg

[H Gang]

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

I would be interested to hear what people think "Apostolic" means here at the AFF. I am fairly certain that most people who would call themselves an Apostolic would at a minimum believe that repentance is necessary for salvation, baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins is also necessary for salvation, and that there must be an infilling of the Holy Ghost.

I believe that the infilling must be evidenced by speaking in tongues.

I was under the impression that must people who believe in speaking in tongues in a general sense were viewed to be Pentecostal or possibly charismatic.

Thoughts?

The label Apostolic means little to me. I know how it was defined growing up and being a part of it. Actually, the Roman Catholic Church coined the term espousing the belief that the pope is in a direct line of succession from Peter who they claim was the first pope. They believe all of the bishops of the RCC are apostles to the church in the spirit of the first apostles.

The New Apostolic Church (NAC) is a chiliastic church, converted to Protestantism as a free church from the Catholic Apostolic Church. The church has existed since 1879 in Germany and since 1897 in the Netherlands. It came about from the schism in Hamburg in 1863, when it demerged from the Catholic Apostolic Church, which itself started in the 1830s as a renewal movement in, among others, the Anglican Church and Church of Scotland.

The New Apostolic Reformation has Pentecostal and charismatic origins, with those traditions' interpretations of the nature of the ongoing ministry of the Holy Spirit within each believer. Unlike some parts of Protestant Christianity, these include the direct revelation of Christ to each believer, prophecy, and the performance of miracles such as healing.

The New Apostolic Reformation traces its historical roots to late-twentieth-century American charismatic churches, and the earliest use of the moniker was by C. Peter Wagner prompting journalists to perceive him as de facto founder and leader, though its ideas were promoted earlier by people involved in the Shepherding Movement and by Terry Virgo.

It has received little attention in non-Charismatic or Pentecostal theological traditions. According to Wagner, “The second apostolic age began in the year 2001”, when, according to him, the lost offices of "Prophet" and "Apostle" were restored, in this age.

So you see labels are relative.

Why is it so important to define everybody? Should we focus on Jesus rather than the apostles? Did the original apostles seek to be like each other or like Jesus?

[Tlswift2009]

Originally Posted by Bella1

YES! People are saved in Baptist Churches. For about 6 or 7 months, I went to Wheeler Avenue Baptist Church in Houston Texas (I was part of their Praise and Worship Team) and I saw MANY people get saved. The ONLY thing that was different was the Baptism. They baptize in The Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, WHICH is Jesus.
The Avenue was one of the most AWESOME churches that I had ever been to. The spirit to worship was amazing and the Preaching was phemonimal. Pastor Cosby is a great man to listen to.

Father-Son-Holyghost represents TITLES for THE NAME. The Book of ACTS represents the name starting with Acts 2:38.

[Tlswift2009]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

They are as lost as a goose in a snowstorm!

If they have not obeyed Acts 2:38 then they are lost! They will not be saved as long as so called apostolic people can't decide what is essential!

ACTS 4:12..." Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we MUST be saved"....COLOSSIANS 3:17..."And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do ALL in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him"....The SAVING name is JESUS, and we MUST do ALL things in His name!!!