Our Trinitarian Brothers and Sisters in Christ

[houston]

...

[houston]

JD is trying to convince himself that his new membership at the trinity church is ok.

[deacon blues]

The word "Oneness" isn't in the Bible either. In fact, Oneness means "unity". This is what trinitarians believe about God. They say God is a tri-unity. I don't tell people I am Oneness. I tell people I believe in God and Jesus is His name. I recognize there is One God and that there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit and these three are one.

I recognize that distinctions are made between the three revealings of God. Jesus speaks of the Father as though He is somebody other than Himself, prays to the Father, defers glory and praise to the Father, says that what He spoke came from the Father, not of Himself. He also speaks of the Holy Spirit as though He were someone other than Himself. He calls Him "another Comforter" and says that He, Jesus, must go so that the Holy Spirit will come and speaks of the HS as "he", rasther than "me". These distinctions seem to be anomolies to the One God paradigm. The disciples post-resurrection continue the distinctions. "Grace to you from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" is evoked often throughout the Epistles.

I think it is the height of arrogance to say that "we've got God figured out". Oneness ppl do it. Trinitarians do it. We can understand one. That's simple. We can understand three. That's simple. Now we see through a glass darkly, then face to face. We shall see Jesus as He is. We do all, whether in word or deed, in the name of Jesus. The Father is all about bringing glory to Jesus. The Holy Spirit testifies and points to Jesus. I refer to God as God the Father, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit. I'm not comfortable with "God the Son" and "God the Spirit" since they are not Biblical terms.

The Bible does not declare anywhere that you must have a perfect understanding of the Godhead to be saved. "Except you believe that I am He" in context is Jesus telling the Pharisees that unless they believed He was their Messiah, they would die in their sins. Jesus then says, "...He who sent me is true..." And the next verse says "They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father." To interpret thast to mean that unless you have a "Oneness" understanding of God, you are lost is unbiblical teaching. Even the early One God believers in the 1900s called trinitarians their brothers.

I believe in One God. I believe in Jesus. Trinitarians would say the same thing. That's good enough for me. If they are not brothers, why does God baptize them with the Holy Ghost? Peter said, "So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us." Acts 15:8 (NKJV).

[Amanah]

Holy Ghost filled, One God, Jesus name preachers are taking our glory and show casing it for the world in charismatic circles, but are not quite forthcoming about our roots. Maybe it's working now, but what about the next generation?

I'm not saying to not fellowship with other HG filled people, not at all.

Maybe I'm deceived that thinking the Oneness of God and Jesus name baptism are precious truths that I think should be freely preached despite whether its popular or not. despite whether TBN will give you a spot or not.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Holy Ghost filled, One God, Jesus name preachers are taking our glory and show casing it for the world in charismatic circles, but are not quite forthcoming about our roots. Maybe it's working now, but what about the next generation?

I'm not saying to not fellowship with other HG filled people, not at all.

Maybe I'm deceived that thinking the Oneness of God and Jesus name baptism are precious truths that I think should be freely preached despite whether its popular or not. despite whether TBN will give you a spot or not.

The Oneness of God and baptism into Jesus name are indeed great treasures. I agree with you having seen it just recently. A Oneness Pastor who did not make an issue out of Oneness is losing his kids to Trinity Churches. He is wondering why. Well its because they were left with the impression that fellowship with Trins was more important than standing firm for the truth.

And Im not a hater of Trins. I was one.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Holy Ghost filled, One God, Jesus name preachers are taking our glory and show casing it for the world in charismatic circles, but are not quite forthcoming about our roots. Maybe it's working now, but what about the next generation?

I'm not saying to not fellowship with other HG filled people, not at all.

Maybe I'm deceived that thinking the Oneness of God and Jesus name baptism are precious truths that I think should be freely preached despite whether its popular or not. despite whether TBN will give you a spot or not.

Amanah, I think we should all be transparant about our beliefs. The Oneness/Trinitrain rift is huge and part of being a submissive christian is to be able to allow debate or discussions with the willingness to be corrected if it is shown that our doctrine is wrong.

Oneness pentecostals are not just wrong on the Godhead but they then more error over to the new birth, baptism of the Holy Ghost, and other areas like standards, etc. Many trinitarians will just point at the fruit of the movement and their case is made that Oneness doctrine leads to even more dangerous doctrine and possibly away from the gospel.

Lets not forget that AOG, COG, and charismatics are all accepted within the christian world because they still hold strong to major christian doctrines. Much of the world believes in the gifts of the spirit, however, there has been both good and bad that has come out of the pentecostal movement. The verdict is still out on the pentecostalm movement as a whole and history hasn't decided if the movement has had any value.

I can gladly fellowship with pentecostals as long as they aren't trying to convert everyone to their way of thinking. It is just better for me to stay away and work in a church where I feel comfortable and altar call and crazy stuff isn't happening.

I do not believe that Oneness folks have truth however I do not believe they are unsaved. There are many sincere oneness folks who are christians and many one this forum who I would count as brothers.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Amanah, I think we should all be transparant about our beliefs. The Oneness/Trinitrain rift is huge and part of being a submissive christian is to be able to allow debate or discussions with the willingness to be corrected if it is shown that our doctrine is wrong.

Oneness pentecostals are not just wrong on the Godhead but they then more error over to the new birth, baptism of the Holy Ghost, and other areas like standards, etc. Many trinitarians will just point at the fruit of the movement and their case is made that Oneness doctrine leads to even more dangerous doctrine and possibly away from the gospel.

Lets not forget that AOG, COG, and charismatics are all accepted within the christian world because they still hold strong to major christian doctrines. Much of the world believes in the gifts of the spirit, however, there has been both good and bad that has come out of the pentecostal movement. The verdict is still out on the pentecostalm movement as a whole and history hasn't decided if the movement has had any value.

I can gladly fellowship with pentecostals as long as they aren't trying to convert everyone to their way of thinking. It is just better for me to stay away and work in a church where I feel comfortable and altar call and crazy stuff isn't happening.

I do not believe that Oneness folks have truth however I do not believe they are unsaved. There are many sincere oneness folks who are christians and many one this forum who I would count as brothers.

Brother, if I am wrong I pray God shows it me. I want nothing but Jesus. I want to make heaven my home. I want to understand the truth of His Word. And I want to make sure that the words I speak will cause others to make heaven their home also.

[Michael The Disciple]

Deacon Blues

The Bible does not declare anywhere that you must have a perfect understanding of the Godhead to be saved. "Except you believe that I am He" in context is Jesus telling the Pharisees that unless they believed He was their Messiah, they would die in their sins. Jesus then says, "...He who sent me is true..." And the next verse says "They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father." To interpret thast to mean that unless you have a "Oneness" understanding of God, you are lost is unbiblical teaching.

It is not unbiblical teaching. The context shows Jesus meant he was the Father.

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