Why I Believe in Eternal Security

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I don't think so. See this is written to those that were already born again and contained warnings about being removed from the book of life IF they overcome

Rev 3:2 Wake up then, and strengthen what remains that was about to die, because I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God.
Rev 3:3 Therefore, remember what you received and heard, and obey it, and repent. If you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will never know at what hour I will come against you.
Rev 3:4 But you have a few individuals in Sardis who have not stained their clothes, and they will walk with me dressed in white, because they are worthy.
Rev 3:5 The one who conquers will be dressed like them in white clothing, and I will never erase his name from the book of life, but will declare his name before my Father and before his angels.

This is clear...this is to the Church in Sardis, not to sinners.

I disagree that it is not written to sinners (per se). Remember that Jesus is speaking to the seven churches (plural), not to the universal church. It is true that there are no sinners in the universal church, but there are many sinners within individual church bodies, such as the church at Sardis.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

And to that church he warns to strengthen what is about to die...to wake up. that there are only a few individuals (of the church) that have not stained their clothes. Then he points out the one that conquers or overcomes will be dressed in white and will never have his name erased from the book of life..

I think you may be overlooking the meaning of the sentance above that you wrote. To overcome essentially means to be born again since 1 John 5:4 says, "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world." If everyone who is born of God overcomes the world, and everone who overcomes will not have his name errased from the book of life, then everyone who is born of God will not have his name errased from the book of life.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

If your argument here is true this would mean EVERYONES name is already written in the book of life and if they don't get born again it is erased. That is contrary to what we are told that because we are saved HE writes our names in the lambs book of life

How can people who were never saved have their names taken out of that holy city? Do you know that Holy City is described as a bride for the lamb? How can their names be there if they were never saved?

Everyone's name is written in the book of life at some point in time since there is a point in time where everyone is not yet cast into hell (i.e. before people's damnation). People who enter into judgement day who are lost, then have their names blotted out of the book of life and have their part in the holy city taken away.

God writes our names in the book of life in the sense that He gives us eternal life.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Those who overcome will not have their names blotted out

Rev 2:4 But I have this against you: You have departed from your first love!
Rev 2:5 Therefore, remember from what high state you have fallen and repent! Do the deeds you did at the first; if not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place — that is, if you do not repent.
Rev 2:6 But you do have this going for you: You hate what the Nicolaitans practice — practices I also hate.
Rev 2:7 The one who has an ear had better hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers, I will permit him to eat from the tree of life that is in the paradise of God.'

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations

Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eye salve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

To give you a brief response, with all due respect, I think that just as you overlooked chapter 3 verse 5 and its meaning, I think that you have overlooked other verses as well. Keep in mind that to overcome means to be born of God since "whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world" in 1 John 5:4:

Revelation 2:7 - To him that is born of God, Jesus will (not might) give him to eat of the tree of life.

Revelation 2:11 - He that is born of God shall not (not might not) be hurt by the second death (or cast into hell).

Revelation 2:17 - He who is born of God will eat of the hidden manna.

Revelation 3:12 - Jesus will make a pillar in the temple of his God to all who overcome.

Revelation 3:21 - He who is born of God will sit with Jesus on his throne.

And finally, Revelation 21:7 tells us that he who is born of God shall inherit all things.

All these passages teach a 100% certainty of future inheritance for all those who will be born of God. Therefore, there is no way that Jesus' statements to the seven churches can be refering to the possibility of the loss of salvation.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Well I asked you first before to show me where this is speaking of those that later fall away. Can you? This is my point. No, in this context this is not those that soon after conversion fell away. This is those that never ceased to practice sin. See you view this as referring to those that some time after conversion start practicing sin again and I dont think you can prove that

Quite possibly you are right that they never ceased to practace sin, even though I know of nowhere in the book of 1 John that proves that. However, John tells people in his first epistle that antichrists were never saved based upon the premise that all those who continue in sin were never saved in chapter 3 verses 6-10 and in other places.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Jesus said you would KNOW them by their fruits though....False prophets are not individual christians who later on fall away. They are people that lead others into damnation.

Most false prophets, at least as far as I know, are not people who fell away from the truth, but rather those who were never in the truth. However, there are some false prophets who were once in the truth, since the antichrists in the book of 1 John were in some way shape or form, one of them at one time. We know this because chapter 2 verse 19 says "they came out from us."

Originally Posted by tbpew

I confidently read the scriptures and see them as pointing/guiding me to a destination that is ahead. We are pilgrims who need to continue, enduring unto the end.

I agree with this statement.

Originally Posted by tbpew

Eternal Security seems to have its best occassion for consideration in the "faith only" viewholder; God made a way, so what can I do? If there is nothing I CAN DO...there certainly is nothing I CAN NOT DO!

Abraham was justified by what he did in response to being instructed by God...he offering Issac.

I understand how people think that people who believe the way I do about preserverance believe that someone who is saved can just live however they want to and make it to heaven. There are probably some who do believe that way, but if that is what you were getting at, that is not at all what I believe. I believe that all those who are saved will live a life of obediance to God as a result of being regenerated.

Originally Posted by tbpew

Any one of us are capable of choosing to depart from God's hand of protection and provision and walk away, returning to the wallow where we were found.

Religous Nut, if you have ever seen one person leave/depart from this faith and return to a life of serving the temporal lusts of this life, you would have to declare them "never having actually been saved". To do so, you are tossing out whatever preceived benefit there is to this doctrinal position. A person has no more security with this doctrinal view if it is possible to fall away a some later time (using the ...they must have never really been saved special clause).

regards,
tbpew

That is not true since I believe that those who are truely saved can know for sure where they are spending their eternity (1 John 5:13).