Why I Believe in Eternal Security

This thread grew out of the other thread that I started because a few people wanted to discuss the issue of eternal security with me. My understanding of the topic of the security of the believer is that all of those who are once truly cleansed by the blood of Christ in the eyes of God will never be damned to hell, but all of them will inherit eternal life, and that those who fall away from the truth and wind up in hell, from God’s perspective, were never saved in the first place. I do not like to use the term “unconditional eternal security” because I believe that our future inheritance is conditional upon faith, and certain things that we do, such as studying the word, praying and staying away from evil keeps our faith going. In other words, just as God uses means to accomplish His will in other things, God uses means to preserve His children. Therefore, I do not believe in some “greasy grace” or “easy believism” message. In my observation, one of the main reasons why so many people reject the doctrine of eternal security is because they tend to equate it to easy believism. Another reason why most Pentecostals reject it is that the Pentecostal Movement has an Armenian theological heritage since it grew out of the Holiness Movement of the late 1800’s and early 1900’s which was an Armenian/Wesleyan movement. Despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of Oneness Pentecostals today reject eternal security, I believe it because I believe that the Bible emphatically teaches it for the following reasons, and many more:

Because those who fall away were never truly saved in the first place:

Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Because those who are truly born again will never live in a continuous lifestyle of sin:

1 John 3:9-10 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Because we are no longer condemned by our sins when we do sin:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Because those who are saved never depart from God:

Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

John 10:4-5 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Because no one will ever remove us from God’s hand:

Isaiah 43:13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?

John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Because Jesus will lose none that that the Father gave him:

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Because we already have eternal life:

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Because we have already received our inheritance:

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Because all who receive initial salvation (those who are justified) will be glorified:

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Because Christ’s death on the cross secured our salvation:

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

[Praxeas]

Ah, argument by spam. Can you start with one verse and exegize it to prove you position that.

Once saved always saved
and
well that person was never really saved to begin with?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Ah, argument by spam. Can you start with one verse and exegize it to prove you position that.

Once saved always saved
and
well that person was never really saved to begin with?

Sure. 1 John 3:9-10 says "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

Keep in mind that in a nutshell, the book of 1 John was written because certain people who denied both the Father and the Son fell away, and John wrote this epistle so he could explain the difference between these anti christs and true believers. When he was doing that, he essentially juxtaposed, or contrasted those who were of the devil, and those who were born again. It is especially important to note that he did not contrast those who lost thier salvation, with those who were keeping their salvation. 1 John 3:9-10 says:

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin....

This part says that those who are born of God do not habitually commit sin, thus implying that all those who do habitually commit sin are not born again.

for its seed remains in him....

The reason why a born again Christian can never habitually sin is because its seed remains in him. Notice that the verse does not say "if its seed remains in him" but that "its seed remains in him," which indicates that the seed will abide in those who are born again.

and he cannot sin because he is born of God....

John essentially paraphrased what he just said in the first part of the verse--that those who are born again cannot sin. It is important to note the word "cannot," which indicates an impossibility.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

In verse 10, John states what is implied in verse 9--that those who do not live an obediant lifestyle are "not of God," meaning that they are not born again, but are children of the devil, or sinners. Have you ever known anybody who you thought was saved, but fell away into a life of sin? According to this verse, they are not born again, which indicates that they never really were saved in the first place.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Religious Nut

Sure. 1 John 3:9-10 says "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

Keep in mind that in a nutshell, the book of 1 John was written because certain people who denied both the Father and the Son fell away, and John wrote this epistle so he could explain the difference between these anti christs and true believers. When he was doing that, he essentially juxtaposed, or contrasted those who were of the devil, and those who were born again. It is especially important to note that he did not contrast those who lost thier salvation, with those who were keeping their salvation. 1 John 3:9-10 says:

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin....

This part says that those who are born of God do not habitually commit sin, thus implying that all those who do habitually commit sin are not born again.

for its seed remains in him....

The reason why a born again Christian can never habitually sin is because its seed remains in him. Notice that the verse does not say "if its seed remains in him" but that "its seed remains in him," which indicates that the seed will abide in those who are born again.

and he cannot sin because he is born of God....

John essentially paraphrased what he just said in the first part of the verse--that those who are born again cannot sin. It is important to note the word "cannot," which indicates an impossibility.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

In verse 10, John states what is implied in verse 9--that those who do not live an obediant lifestyle are "not of God," meaning that they are not born again, but are children of the devil, or sinners. Have you ever known anybody who you thought was saved, but fell away into a life of sin? According to this verse, they are not born again, which indicates that they never really were saved in the first place.

I have to say, even baring the KJV translation I don't see where this says someone can lose their salvation. Rather it says essentially those that ARE saved will not continue to practice sin....

1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

This verse does not say "they can't fall into sin" nor does it say "they can't lose their salvation" nor "if they do they were never really saved to begin with"

1Jn 3:3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
1Jn 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
1Jn 3:5 You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

You have to abide in him and the test for someone that is abiding in Christ is that they do not keep on sinning or they do not practice sin

Jesus said joh 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

IF is a conditional.

[Michael The Disciple]

Hi RN,

I understand where you are coming from. I have some dear friends who hold this. It is based upon the doctrine of predestionation. Another verse they use is this:

10: Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 2 Peter 2:10

In other words by a life of holiness and enduring to the end one proves they are one of the true elect.

That does seem to make sense along with this:

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Since I do believe in predestination this would not be a long jump for me to believe. There some scriptures however that have restrained me from doing so.

To the thought that they were never really saved how about this:

6: If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

If one is IN CHRIST he is saved. A new creation. Yet Yeshua says they can still be cast out and burned.

2: Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3: Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4: Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5: He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev. 3:2-5

This group of believers works were not perfect. The Lord threatens them with blotting their names out of his book.

Can you explain the meaning of these verses from your viewpoint? Thanks.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Hi RN,

I understand where you are coming from. I have some dear friends who hold this. It is based upon the doctrine of predestionation. Another verse they use is this:

10: Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 2 Peter 2:10

In other words by a life of holiness and enduring to the end one proves they are one of the true elect..

2 Peter is consistant with what I believe since we need to make sure that we are in the truth (i.e. one of the elect). And yes I agree completely that a life of endurance proves that they are one of the elect since the elect will ultimately be preserved.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

That does seem to make sense along with this:

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Since I do believe in predestination this would not be a long jump for me to believe. There some scriptures however that have restrained me from doing so.

There are difficult scriptures for any position that you take. After I began to study this through I gradually began to find out that all of the proof texts against preserverance really did not mean what some people thought they meant.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

To the thought that they were never really saved how about this:

6: If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

If one is IN CHRIST he is saved. A new creation. Yet Yeshua says they can still be cast out and burned.

2: Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3: Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4: Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5: He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev. 3:2-5

This group of believers works were not perfect. The Lord threatens them with blotting their names out of his book.

Can you explain the meaning of these verses from your viewpoint? Thanks.

To give you a brief explanation of these two passages, in John 15, "in Christ" means in the vine, and in the vine means under the covenant. I believe that this passage teaches that after the old covenant was abolished and replaced with the new covenant, those Jews who did not abide in God's covenant were broken off of the vine. This interpretation especially becomes apparent when seeing it in light of Romans 11, which essentially teaches the same thing.

I believe that Revelation 3:5, as well as a lot of the other "he that overcometh" passages in the book of Revelation are strong proof texts for preserverance. To overcome means to be born again since 1 John 5:4 says "whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world." All those who overcome will not be blotted out of the book of life (damned to hell). Therefore if everyone who is born of God overcomes the world, and everyone who is born of God will not have their name blotted out of the book of life, then everyone who is born of God will not have their name blotted out of the book of life. To put it in terms of logic: if A = B and B = C then A = C.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I have to say, even baring the KJV translation I don't see where this says someone can lose their salvation. Rather it says essentially those that ARE saved will not continue to practice sin....

1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

This verse does not say "they can't fall into sin" nor does it say "they can't lose their salvation" nor "if they do they were never really saved to begin with"

1Jn 3:3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
1Jn 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
1Jn 3:5 You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

You have to abide in him and the test for someone that is abiding in Christ is that they do not keep on sinning or they do not practice sin

Jesus said joh 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

IF is a conditional.

BUMP for RN...

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I have to say, even baring the KJV translation I don't see where this says someone can lose their salvation. Rather it says essentially those that ARE saved will not continue to practice sin....

The passage certainly does say that those who are saved will not continue sinning, but it goes beyond that. It says that all those who have been born again will not continue sinning.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

Whatever version you are using brings this out even clearer than in the King James, even though both translations essentially say the same thing.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This verse does not say "they can't fall into sin" nor does it say "they can't lose their salvation" nor "if they do they were never really saved to begin with"

I encourage you to look at it a second time.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

1Jn 3:3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
1Jn 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
1Jn 3:5 You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

You have to abide in him and the test for someone that is abiding in Christ is that they do not keep on sinning or they do not practice sin

Look at the last part of verse 6--it says that no one who keeps on sinning has either seen or known him, which indicates that those who keep on sinning neither did see or know him, which indicates that they never were saved.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Jesus said joh 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

IF is a conditional.

All those who are truely saved will keep his commandments according to 1 John 3:9.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Since I do believe in predestination this would not be a long jump for me to believe.

Also, since you believe in predestination, consider the notion that God does not only predestinate the elect to initial salvation, but to eternal salvation, which indicates that all of them will have eternal life, and a future inheritance.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

[Michael The Disciple]

The easy believism version of eternal security I rejected many years back. This version I am still looking into.