What is a Cult?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Are you just in an arguing mood? Is that it? I feel like I'm arguing with my 13-year old. My comments above.

That is exactly what I was thinking of you. lol. Exactly why Im not even gonna bother continuing this direction with you

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

You've just said repeatedly why you don't think we can use the word. And I mean REPEATEDLY.

You gave 30 definitions from a dictionary source or otherwise.

I don't think the thread was seeking to find a dictrionary answer to the puzzle, Prax. There's Google for that.

where did I say YOU can't use the word cult?

Yes I gave 30 definitions from the dictionary. most of which were pretty much the same. Why is that a reason to attack me?

What was the puzzle? Why do you guys become belligerent over someone giving their 2 cents worth on the word cult?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by LadyRev

I predict this topic will turn against one particular group before midnight tonight. And thats being generous. It will probably happen before that. If it doesn't, it will be a miracle.

That being said, I'm so glad that God set me free from the largest CULT in the world, the Roman Catholic Church. Choose any definition you want and it will fit the definition.

that's pretty much what I mean. We can make the word cult mean whatever we want and it almost always carries a negative connotation with it.

More importantly than labeling people, I think when it comes to "mind control" we come up with some authoritative definitions for what mind control is as a warning to all

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I don't like using it, unless it is defined, simply because of what I have said over and over....many tie unfavorable connotations to the word when the word originally meant any worshiper in a thing or person.

If you want to label a group "cult" that's your business. I think for clarity though when we refer to a group as a cult, we should specify why instead of just using the word cult. Mind Control cult, or Psychological cult. It doesn't necessarily have to be religious in nature. Followers of some "think positive" speaker can be in a mind control cult.

The post has offered some narrow definitions. Even the contributions of others. Even when I listed symptoms.

The mind control I've seen used in churches is quite amazing. People silence opposition, trumping their controversial opinions as the inspired interpretation of every letter, and themselves as the authorized interpreter for all scripture. Thinking uniformity is big too. People fear questions or thinking contrary to the primary leader. The primary leader makes all decisions. The primary leader is honored above even a human level. The primary leader decides all things. There are no church boards. There are no elders with equivalent authority. The primary leader usually claims special spiritual authority, they alone hear from God for the congregation.

Everyone must dress similar. Again, uniformity is the key. (Thought, dress, worship, behavior)

So we are taking a very broad word and applying to very narrowly. I don't have a better word for it. I think of Jim Jones groups, and if you need a place of reference to how most here would define the word, that's what they are using. When we get an invite to a Sociologist Conference, we may be more academic and broad in our definition.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LadyRev

I predict this topic will turn against one particular group before midnight tonight. And thats being generous. It will probably happen before that. If it doesn't, it will be a miracle.

That being said, I'm so glad that God set me free from the largest CULT in the world, the Roman Catholic Church. Choose any definition you want and it will fit the definition.

FTR, I don't think "cult" describes all of Oneness Pentecostalism. I think the proclivity toward that is certainly higher, and that's my opinion. And I also think there are many sub-groups within Oneness Pentecostalism, within the United Pentecostal Church and other various orgs, that exemplify these characteristics.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

that's pretty much what I mean. We can make the word cult mean whatever we want and it almost always carries a negative connotation with it.

More importantly than labeling people, I think when it comes to "mind control" we come up with some authoritative definitions for what mind control is as a warning to all

I suspected this was the catatlyst to your defensiveness.

Make no mistake, the word is a pejorative.


What do you mean by the bolded?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Socialite

FTR, I don't think "cult" describes all of Oneness Pentecostalism. I think the proclivity toward that is certainly higher, and that's my opinion. And I also think there are many sub-groups within Oneness Pentecostalism, within the United Pentecostal Church and other various orgs, that exemplify these characteristics.

I agree absolutely!

I think the "proclivity" is higher because of the push for uniformity, the propogated role of the pastor and the presence of spiritual gifts (nothing wrong with spiritual gifts, but when abused, they tend to make it easier to manipulate people).

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Socialite

I think the post has offered some narrow definitions. Even the contributions of others. Even descriptions or "symptoms."

The mind control I've seen used in churches is quite amazing. People silence opposition, trumping their controversial opinions as the inspired interpretation of every letter, and themselves as the authorized interpreter for all scripture. Thinking uniformity is big too. People fear questions or thinking contrary to the primary leader. The primary leader makes all decisions. The primary leader is honored above even a human level. The primary leader decides all things. There are no church boards. There are no elders with equivalent authority. The primary leader usually claims special spiritual authority, they alone hear from God for the congregation.

Everyone must dress similar. Again, uniformity is the key. (Thought, dress, worship, behavior)

So we are taking a very broad word and applying to very narrowly. I don't have a better word for it. I think of Jim Jones groups, and if you need a place of reference to how most here would define the word, that's what they are using. When we get an invite to a Sociologist Conference, we may be more academic and broad in our definition.

The interesting thing about your first paragraph is it can pretty much cover most churches where the pastor or a board dictates interpretation for the group. The SBC dictates interpretation for their group. The RCC for theirs. On a local level Pastors and board members. I don't really consider that "mind control'...authoritarian? Sure. Maybe some churches, like the UU don't have a set interpretation of scriptures

I have a problem when they use "methods" other than teaching the bible, to convince or force members to comply with certain "interpretations".

Other "mind control" methods are separation or stigmatizing people. The JWs are really into this. If someone disagrees on one little point, yet they aren't really causing problems, they are kicked out and current members can't talk to them at all, even family members.

There is a former UPC in town. The Pastor there is like this. He even teaches his sheeple not to visit my church. He would rather them backslid or visit a Trinitarian church. He has his people so messed up that they look down and say my church is compromising because we don't preach against TV (we don't tell people it's ok, we don't tell people they can't own one or else) yet many of his members have TVs and still say my church is a compromiser church. I know one of their members that watches TV over the internet and still says we are the ones that are compromising.

This sort of thing is constantly reinforced, over and over and over.

Even a family can be a "cult" with a controlling and abusive parent and the wife/kids think this is normal.

I personally don't see a problem with a church setting what it feels is the correct interpretation of scripture for it's church and church members. I don't consider that mind control or cultish activity. Mind control is very real and dangerous.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Socialite

I suspected this was the catatlyst to your defensiveness.

Make no mistake, the word is a pejorative.


What do you mean by the bolded?

Im not being defensive other than the personal jabs you and Jeff have taken.

What do I mean by the bolded? I mean the whole genre of MIND CONTROL governs a certain science of the mind. It's psychological. I think best qualified to tell us what is mind control are experts in the field of the mind or methods to control the mind. Joe Schmoes with a website are not necessarily experts.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Im not being defensive other than the personal jabs you and Jeff have taken.

What do I mean by the bolded? I mean the whole genre of MIND CONTROL governs a certain science of the mind. It's psychological. I think best qualified to tell us what is mind control are experts in the field of the mind or methods to control the mind. Joe Schmoes with a website are not necessarily experts.

There again, I must qualify a statement. I'm not referring to mind control in the strictest sense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control). But the way some reinforce what they believe, the methods they go about doing that and the way they treat people that aren't quite conforming tell the story.