The idea that untold thousands of people have lost out with God (backslid) BECAUSE they were asked to, or taught to tithe is hogwash. AND....if ALL churches taught it EXACTLY as Sean believes ("free will") it would NOT change the sinner's opinion one iota. To the unregenerate man, giving to the church is NEVER going to make sense whether it is tithe or "forced" (which is un-biblical 2 Cor. 9:7) or "free-will."
The truth is that where one's heart is their treasure will be. When a person is in love with Jesus, giving will NEVER be an issue to them. Contrary to what Bro. Jason has tried to state, tithing or free-will giving is NOT about performance or trying to gain acceptance, it is NOT about fear or salvation, it is about love and thankfulness, and a sense of duty to help accomplish the mission of the church to reach the world with the gospel. Show me a man who refuses or is reluctant to give and I'll show you a man who has serious relationship problems with God.
Also, regardless of whether you believe in tithing or free-will, IMHO greed and stinginess does bring a curse into our lives. It limits what God and others can bless us with and so much more. When a person pays the "minimum" they forfeit the greater blessing and miss the bigger picture.
FWIW, every offering we receive we make sure all guests know they are under NO obligation to give, they are welcome to if they so choose but we want them to enjoy their time of worship and fellowship without worrying about money. As it relates to our "members" we teach them to give out of love, with joy and NOT because they fear rejection of God or man. The previous pastor told us that no one tithed and very few gave anything at all even though he hammered them constantly about it. Our congregation has tripled in size and the giving is incredible....NOT because folks are scared of hell or because they are worried that they may not meet the approval of their pastor, but because they love God and they are excited about what God is doing in their lives.
We have been working towards the day when we will not take up an offering in our church (with the possible exception of special needs) as I consider it a serious intrusion/distraction into the flow of the spirit.
Unfortunately, however, I am just a hell going, tithe preaching, money grubbing preacher that is doing more harm than good to the poor hoodwinked saints that God has permitted me to pastor.......y'all pray for me......seriously..... I need the prayer......and y'all probably need the practice!
Excellent post brother.
Remember that about 99% of Apostolic preachers teach tithing.
If these preachers were removed I seriously doubt that the anti-tithe crowd could take over all those sheep of God. Most sheep would be without a shepherd to guide them.
The laborer is worthy of his hire, and I am quite sure that most of the 99% percent of the preachers are worth their hire, maybe a few exception here and there, but we are not going to punish all the preachers just for a few bad apples. (We will simply remove the few bad apples)
The Lord bless you, and keep on collecting those tithes, pay not attention to the disgruntled cheapskate, stingy, miserly anti-tithe crowd.
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**Original Matthew 28:19 Restored**
The idea that untold thousands of people have lost out with God (backslid) BECAUSE they were asked to, or taught to tithe is hogwash. AND....if ALL churches taught it EXACTLY as Sean believes ("free will") it would NOT change the sinner's opinion one iota. To the unregenerate man, giving to the church is NEVER going to make sense whether it is tithe or "forced" (which is un-biblical 2 Cor. 9:7) or "free-will."
The truth is that where one's heart is their treasure will be. When a person is in love with Jesus, giving will NEVER be an issue to them. Contrary to what Bro. Jason has tried to state, tithing or free-will giving is NOT about performance or trying to gain acceptance, it is NOT about fear or salvation, it is about love and thankfulness, and a sense of duty to help accomplish the mission of the church to reach the world with the gospel. Show me a man who refuses or is reluctant to give and I'll show you a man who has serious relationship problems with God.
Also, regardless of whether you believe in tithing or free-will, IMHO greed and stinginess does bring a curse into our lives. It limits what God and others can bless us with and so much more. When a person pays the "minimum" they forfeit the greater blessing and miss the bigger picture.
FWIW, every offering we receive we make sure all guests know they are under NO obligation to give, they are welcome to if they so choose but we want them to enjoy their time of worship and fellowship without worrying about money. As it relates to our "members" we teach them to give out of love, with joy and NOT because they fear rejection of God or man. The previous pastor told us that no one tithed and very few gave anything at all even though he hammered them constantly about it. Our congregation has tripled in size and the giving is incredible....NOT because folks are scared of hell or because they are worried that they may not meet the approval of their pastor, but because they love God and they are excited about what God is doing in their lives.
We have been working towards the day when we will not take up an offering in our church (with the possible exception of special needs) as I consider it a serious intrusion/distraction into the flow of the spirit.
Unfortunately, however, I am just a hell going, tithe preaching, money grubbing preacher that is doing more harm than good to the poor hoodwinked saints that God has permitted me to pastor.......y'all pray for me......seriously..... I need the prayer......and y'all probably need the practice!
Excellent post brother, we that majority of Apostolic preachers 99% are with you on this issue. so be encouraged.
__________________
**Original Matthew 28:19 Restored**
I'd like to see the BIBLE doctrine of tithing being defined as "at least ten percent of your paycheck deposited as cash or a check in the church treasury for which you will get an IRS tax deduction" please.
I'd like to see the BIBLE doctrine of tithing being defined as "at least ten percent of your paycheck deposited as cash or a check in the church treasury for which you will get an IRS tax deduction" please.
And dont forget to specify..."on the gross of your paycheck"....LOL
Brother, if these guys lived in the 1st century, they would have had to start their own movement. The Apostles would have kicked them out of the churches when they heard them bless and curse the saints according to Mal. 3(the Law)....LOL. Not even in 1st century HISTORY do you read of the nonsense that they teach. This weird concept of Christian tithing has NO scriptural or historical record anywhere in the world until the 6th century. This is why I came to realize that these men are teaching "dark age" theology, that is based in HARD CORE CATHOLICISM!!!
A tithe (/ˈtaɪš/; from Old English: teogoža "tenth") is a one-tenth part of something, paid as a contribution to a religious organization or compulsory tax to government.[1] Today, tithes are normally voluntary and paid in cash, cheques, or stocks, whereas historically tithes were required and paid in kind, such as agricultural products. Several European countries operate a formal process linked to the tax system allowing some churches to assess tithes.
Traditional Jewish law and practice has included various forms of tithing since ancient times. Orthodox Jews commonly practice ma'aser kesafim (tithing 10% of their income to charity). In modern Israel, Jews continue to follow the laws of agricultural tithing, e.g., ma'aser rishon, terumat ma'aser, and ma'aser sheni. In Christianity, some interpretations of Biblical teachings conclude that although tithing was practiced extensively in the Old Testament, it was never practiced or taught within the first-century Church. Instead, the New Testament scriptures are seen as teaching the concept of "freewill offerings" as a means of supporting the church: 1 Corinthians 16:2, 2Corinthians 9:7. Also, some of the earliest groups sold everything they had and held the proceeds in common to be used for the furtherance of the Gospel: Acts 2:44-47, Acts 4:34-35. Further, Acts 5:1-20 contains the account of a man and wife (Ananias and Sapphira) who were living in one of these groups. They sold a piece of property and donated only part of the selling price to the church but claimed to have given the whole amount and immediately fell down and died when confronted by the apostle Peter over their dishonesty.
Tithes were mentioned in councils at Tours in 567 and at Mācon in 585. They were formally recognized under Pope Adrian I in 787.[citation needed]
I have yet to receive an answer to some questions I asked previously. Here's the post,
For those who do teach the principle of tithing...
Are there any needy classes (widows, orphans, poor, fellow ministers) that are exempt from tithing within your congregation?
And, in what manner do the tithes collected into the "storehouse" go to aid needy classes?
I ask these questions because the Law as it pertained to the tithe was never a burden upon those needy classes in Israel. In fact, a portion of the tithes collected were to relieve the distress of the most needy among them (widows, orphans, etc.). Therefore, to Israel the tithe was a blessing to the people, namely the poor. The way so many preach tithing today... tithing under the New Covenant can be oppressive to the very classes the Law sought to protect and relieve. As a result, New Testament tithing becomes far more harsh and burdensome than the tithe could have ever been... even under the Law of Moses.
You see... I want to know the bounds within which they teach tithing. Do they make the tithe absolutely mandatory, even for those who it would prove to burden, or do they relieve those who are in financial trouble? This question is of the utmost importance. Why? Because it will prove if one's tithe teaching is a form of oppression or if it is taught in the very spirit of biblical tithing.
Biblically speaking, if they require a tithe the burdens those under hardship... they have taken what was designed to relieve hardship and used it for extortion and oppression.
I have yet to receive an answer to some questions I asked previously. Here's the post,
For those who do teach the principle of tithing...
Are there any needy classes (widows, orphans, poor, fellow ministers) that are exempt from tithing within your congregation?
And, in what manner do the tithes collected into the "storehouse" go to aid needy classes?
I ask these questions because the Law as it pertained to the tithe was never a burden upon those needy classes in Israel. In fact, a portion of the tithes collected were to relieve the distress of the most needy among them (widows, orphans, etc.). Therefore, to Israel the tithe was a blessing to the people, namely the poor. The way so many preach tithing today... tithing under the New Covenant can be oppressive to the very classes the Law sought to protect and relieve. As a result, New Testament tithing becomes far more harsh and burdensome than the tithe could have ever been... even under the Law of Moses.
You see... I want to know the bounds within which they teach tithing. Do they make the tithe absolutely mandatory, even for those who it would prove to burden, or do they relieve those who are in financial trouble? This question is of the utmost importance. Why? Because it will prove if one's tithe teaching is a form of oppression or if it is taught in the very spirit of biblical tithing.
Biblically speaking, if they require a tithe the burdens those under hardship... they have taken what was designed to relieve hardship and used it for extortion and oppression.
I've heard it taught that if you are poor, you may be poor because you don't tithe. Further, if you start tithing, even if you think you can't afford it, God will bless you. "You can't afford not to tithe!" they like to say. This teaching is usually accompanied by amazing stories. (Like a lot of teaching! )
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Why didn't the Holy Ghost include tithing in the list of requirements of Gentile believers?
Acts15:28-29 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Why didn't the Holy Ghost include tithing in the list of requirements of Gentile believers?
Or ANY Apostle or NT writer for that matter.
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
Why didn't the Holy Ghost include tithing in the list of requirements of Gentile believers?
Acts15:28-29 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Badejo
Or ANY Apostle or NT writer for that matter.
Because tithing was not a part of the law, it existed before the Law, it was just simply added to the Law, where it was expanded.
There was not need to remind the believers of what was common knowledge and was commonly practiced by them.
Actually the teaching was endorsed in the Book of Hebrews, of course those who like to twist the scriptures twist it to mean that Paul was preaching against tithing, when in reality in Hebrews he was reaffirming the tithe.
Those twisters of the Scriptures twist the scriptures to their own destruction.
__________________
**Original Matthew 28:19 Restored**
Because tithing was not a part of the law, it existed before the Law, it was just simply added to the Law, where it was expanded.
There was not need to remind the believers of what was common knowledge and was commonly practiced by them.
Actually the teaching was endorsed in the Book of Hebrews, of course those who like to twist the scriptures twist it to mean that Paul was preaching against tithing, when in reality in Hebrews he was reaffirming the tithe.
Those twisters of the Scriptures twist the scriptures to their own destruction.
Oh ok. NOW I'm convinced.
Actually the only tithing before the Law was Abraham to Melchizedek and a cross reference of Gen 14 w/Hebrews 7 shoe it was not even of Abraham's personal possessions and wealth but of the spoils of war.
I'm interested to know how YOU sir twist the scriptures to tell people under your care that that means they have to tithe money under the covenant of grace or be cursed for robbing God.
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
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