Christianity is based on substitutionary atonement

[Gnostic Bishop]

Christianity is based on substitutionary atonement. Is it a moral religion?

The case of substitutionary atonement that I wish to speak of is when God deemed it moral and just to punish his innocent son Jesus, --- instead of punishing the guilty sinners that God was to condemn.

The strange part of this situation is that God had chosen to sacrifice Jesus even before the potential for sin was created, --- God had yet to create the earth, --- showing that what God was killing Jesus for, --- he had yet to create.

This was an arbitrary choice for God that was completely needless. God could have chosen to punish the guilty, --- what most call justice, --- or God could have found a moral way to forgive us. Instead, God chose to do the unjust and punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

The sacrifice was to pay or bribe God to change his usual policy of punishing the guilty to immorally punishing Jesus. God could have shown mercy and justice but instead decided to use an unjust method to forgive us.

That means that to be a good Christian, you have to accept and embrace the immoral tenet of human sacrifice and the notion that the best form of justice, --- when one wants to forgive someone, --- is to kill an innocent party.

As above so below.

At the end of days, God is to bring his law to earth.

Would you, as an innocent party, think it just if God punished you instead of the guilty?

Do you think that Jesus would ever preach such an immoral form of justice?

Regards
DL

[gardenheart]

The fullness of the Godhead was bodily in Jesus...so in all actuality God willingly sacrificed Himself for us...at least that's the way I see it. No greater love than to lay down your life for your brother

[mfblume]

Not another cynic and mocker. (sigh)

Here we go, folks. Pack your bags, and see them take you on a guilt trip.

[Gnostic Bishop]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Not another cynic and mocker. (sigh)

Here we go, folks. Pack your bags, and see them take you on a guilt trip.

How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Revisit substitutionary atonement or vicarious redemption and scapegoating with me just to refresh your memory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. Scapegoating IOW.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning as we all know that it is immoral to kill the innocent. God knows this yet Christians do not seem to. You do. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a son just to prove it's benevolence. When you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

If and when you say yes, you become his.

-----------------------------------

The other option in scriptures, a moral one, is shown here. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Scriptures indicate that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and as God’s will is supreme and cannot be thwarted, this will come to pass.

---------------------------------

It is a special distorted Christian view of love that sees, --- as the greatest act of love possible, --- their God condemning them, and then turning and demanding his son’s deaths and thus corrupting God's perfect justice. A bribe set by God as judge himself for himself. This is of course ridiculous.

Christians have an insane view of love, IMO.

Would you express your love for humanity or those you love by having your own child needlessly murdered?

Or if convinced that a sacrifice was somehow good, would you have the moral fortitude to step up yourself to that cross instead of sending your child?

Your cowardly God did not.

Regards
DL

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Gnostic Bishop

How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Revisit substitutionary atonement or vicarious redemption and scapegoating with me just to refresh your memory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. Scapegoating IOW.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning as we all know that it is immoral to kill the innocent. God knows this yet Christians do not seem to. You do. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a son just to prove it's benevolence. When you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

If and when you say yes, you become his.

-----------------------------------

The other option in scriptures, a moral one, is shown here. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Scriptures indicate that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and as God’s will is supreme and cannot be thwarted, this will come to pass.

---------------------------------

It is a special distorted Christian view of love that sees, --- as the greatest act of love possible, --- their God condemning them, and then turning and demanding his son’s deaths and thus corrupting God's perfect justice. A bribe set by God as judge himself for himself. This is of course ridiculous.

Christians have an insane view of love, IMO.

Would you express your love for humanity or those you love by having your own child needlessly murdered?

Or if convinced that a sacrifice was somehow good, would you have the moral fortitude to step up yourself to that cross instead of sending your child?

Your cowardly God did not.

Regards
DL

The Bible also speaks of Christ willingly giving his life for us. He had a choice in this. God did not force him to do it. Furthermore Christ gladly did this "for the joy set before him". You might be complaining, but he is not. He is perfectly happy with what Calvary wrought for him as well as for us.

You can self righteously mock God all day if you want. But in the end you lack sufficient righteousness to stand guiltless before God in the day of wrath. So you can either embrace the imputed righteousness offered to you by God through faith in Christ's atoning work, or you can rattle off all of these accusations to God personally at the judgement bar. Good luck with the latter.



Basically you are a self righteous person who

[Gnostic Bishop]

Originally Posted by Originalist

The Bible also speaks of Christ willingly giving his life for us. He had a choice in this. God did not force him to do it. Furthermore Christ gladly did this "for the joy set before him". You might be complaining, but he is not. He is perfectly happy with what Calvary wrought for him as well as for us.

You can self righteously mock God all day if you want. But in the end you lack sufficient righteousness to stand guiltless before God in the day of wrath. So you can either embrace the imputed righteousness offered to you by God through faith in Christ's atoning work, or you can rattle off all of these accusations to God personally at the judgement bar. Good luck with the latter.



Basically you are a self righteous person who

You ignore all the places where Jesus says he is doing his fathers work and his will and not his own.

Go lie to yourself elsewhere. I seek those who read what the word says and not what you want the words to say.

You must be a fool if you think God's justice includes punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Show us how that works and how a fool would explain such a just method of judging.

Regards
DL

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by gardenheart

The fullness of the Godhead was bodily in Jesus...so in all actuality God willingly sacrificed Himself for us...at least that's the way I see it. No greater love than to lay down your life for your brother

Exactly.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Exactly.

Amen.

[Gnostic Bishop]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Amen.

Is God a just judge?

This speaks of Jesus.
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement and shows his setting and accepting a bribe of a human sacrifice to corrupt or alter his justice and judgement.

Justice usually states that only the punishment of the guilty is acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish the innocent.

God’s corruption of this usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.

If you elect your judges in your country, would you vote God in as a fair and just judge knowing that he can be bribed?

Is God a just judge?

Regards
DL

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Gnostic Bishop

The usual scripted reply. Good grief.

You forget that what you quote makes it look like your prick of a God did not even love his own son enough to die for him.

As above so below says you have the same cold heart.

A moral man will wish his son to bury him but do not let that fact worry your self-centred thinking. You are just like your God. That is not good.

Regards
DL

Why are you here? To spout anything you can against the Bible or our faith? Nice.