Atonement?

[jfrog]

Hi everyone, I'm new here! But enough about me, I have something that's been on my mind quite some time... That is atonement. Ezekiel 18:27 says "Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive." In this passage we see repentance. That God will forgive those who turn from their wicked ways.

But this was before Christ. Take a minute to soak in that really means. That repentance and forgiveness existed under the old covenant. So then, it cannot be said that Christ came to somehow pay our price or appease God's sense of justice so that we could be forgiven. God already said he would forgive us if we only repent.

So, if Christ's death wasn't some kind of transaction to pay for our sins or a way to appease God's sense of justice... what did Christ's death accomplish? Any thoughts or comments would be great! Even some kind of explanation against the reasoning i use to come to this question. Anything would be great.

[Sam]

Forgiveness of sin in the Old Testament was available to those who would repent. The whole city of Nineveh repented and God forgave them.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Hi everyone, I'm new here! But enough about me, I have something that's been on my mind quite some time... That is atonement. Ezekiel 18:27 says "Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive." In this passage we see repentance. That God will forgive those who turn from their wicked ways.

But this was before Christ. Take a minute to soak in that really means. That repentance and forgiveness existed under the old covenant. So then, it cannot be said that Christ came to somehow pay our price or appease God's sense of justice so that we could be forgiven. God already said he would forgive us if we only repent.

So, if Christ's death wasn't some kind of transaction to pay for our sins or a way to appease God's sense of justice... what did Christ's death accomplish? Any thoughts or comments would be great! Even some kind of explanation against the reasoning i use to come to this question. Anything would be great.

Great thought! Keep searching. As with icebergs, you will discover there is much more below the surface than Christians like to admit. The fear of what we'll find, may be the very answer we need!

Don't let fear stop you from your pursuit of truth!

Welcome aboard!

[Scott Hutchinson]

The death of Christ was a once and for all sacrifice.
It provided an all sufficent sacrifice for sin.

[jfrog]

Sacrifice... That is exactly what I'm getting... The normal thought of Christ being a sacrifice for most people is that of Christ taking our place, of him being our substitute. It's that Christ paid the price of our sin so that we wouldn't have to.

But if what i posted earlier is true, Christ could not have been the kind of sacrifice which paid our price, for God already offered forgiveness of sin (see Ezekiel 18:27) through repentance long before his sacrifice. Nor could he could have been our substitute in any sense of him taking our place because upon repentance we already were promised forgiveness and thus we would have nothing which we needed a substitute for.

So how exactly was Christ a sacrifice?

[Timmy]

[Scott Hutchinson]

I would like to study this out some and I will try to get back to you.

[deltaguitar]

Repentance doesn't save. The work which Christ performed on calvary is what washes away our sin. For those who were before Christ it was the promise of the redeemer that they put their faith in and those after it is the blood that was shed.

I think that after Christ died he went to Hell/paradise and released the righteous who had died before his shed blood.

People have always been saved by the blood of the lamb "slain from the foundation of the world."

[jfrog]

I can't wait to hear back from you Scott.

I just wanted to clarify that I'm not saying Christ wasn't a sacrifice only that our traditional understanding of what a sacrifice is may be amiss.

Truly, salvation is by Christ. Salvation from what though? I think the answer is sin. Christ saves us from sin. Yet, there is no salvation from sin without repentance. Even Christ said he came to call the sinners to repentance in Matthew 9:13. So it seems to me, the way Christ saves us from sin is first by example (showing us that righteous living can be done and what it looks like) also by leading us to repentance (this by his crucifixion , for in it the righteousness of God is so clearly evident contrasted with the wickedness of the world) and maybe most importantly by the gift of his spirit (which gives us power to overcome sin.)

Again if what I said earlier is true then, God already said he would forgive us if we would repent and turn from our wicked ways. (see Ezekiel 18:27) Also, In Christ is the clearest revelation that we need to repent and not only that, but also the power to turn from our wicked ways by the promise of the holy spirit.

The only thing is, this explanation differs drastically from any kind of thought that Christ died in our place. In other words, while we are saved by him it is not in the traditional sense that his blood covers our sin thus allowing God to forgive us by looking at the blood instead of us. This explanation brings the thought that Christ died for us, not in our place. It brings the thought that Christ died to free us from our sins. To give us the power to live a life acceptable to God and it is in this way that his death brings about our forgiveness.

Any thoughts?

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by jfrog

. . .

Any thoughts?

Yeah. http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...221#post809221

Does that help?