Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-15-2007, 03:09 AM
Steadfast
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
A Reverend's Rambling Review of 'Relevance'

I’m sure every real preacher of the gospel, at some juncture of their life, has those times that certain ‘concerns’ reach up and gently tap on the shoulder of your spiritual man. I’m referring to those times that your eyes say ‘not too bad’ but your heart says ‘something doesn’t ring true’. I’ve had it many times in the past and will most likely have them again.

I realize that in my passionate pursuit to genuinely be a Man of God that I can sometimes be ‘wary’ of things that could potentially lead us in the wrong direction. It was in that moment of ‘wariness’ that I received a correspondence from a young man that I’ve heard many good things about. He expressed some concern about the goals of some prominent young preachers and his concern has lingered in my heart long enough that it has now become my burden. A burden, in fact, that I feel a have to at least address.

Let’s talk about the driving need some feel to be ‘relevant’. Mind you, while I probably preach as many ‘Campmeetings’ as youth camps these days, I still feel quite qualified as someone who has poured out my heart to youth through ministry for some 18 years to address some issues. Please indulge me to make a few points that I feel ‘relevant’.

First of all it’s important to those precious young preachers following behind me to know that every new ‘crop’ of young preachers are going to have their ‘catch phrases’ that can become problematic if taken too far. For instance;
• Has there ever been a youth camp that, at some point, hasn’t had to debated whether that camp was to be a ‘refuge’ from peer pressure or 'evangelistic’ in nature. That was a common ‘catchphrase’ for letting down or ignoring certain campground standards. Good intentions? Perhaps. I saw some good men plead to make them evangelistic at the expense of holiness standards.
• How about when rap first came out and most every choir had at least one rap solo in a song? The ‘catchphrase’ of that generation was that we had to ‘identify’ with them. That carried over into the whole gospel rock scene and their heralding call was that we had to ‘identify’ with their preferences before we could push our preferences on them. Good intentions? Some incredibly sincere people I loved dearly laid down precious things to ‘identify’ and it cost them dearly.

My point in dealing with those ‘catchphrases’ is to note that each new generation has their ‘catchphrase’ and the one I keep hearing bantered about right now is that we have to be ‘relevant’ to this society. It might surprise you to know that I, at least to a point, agree with you. But, again, it’s when those ‘catchphrases’ are taken to extremes that our Pentecostal culture starts to break down. That is what I fear about our newfound desire to be ‘relevant’; being relevant to our society at some point means forcing our Pentecostal culture of holiness to fit into a mold it was never designed for.

Let me illustrate for a moment. For over a year after the hurricane destroyed my sanctuary we had midweek services in ‘casual’ dress. Jeans, khakis and such were almost necessary because we had to ‘put out’ and ‘put up’ the sanctuary furniture each and every night. We had good Church with the exception of those few random nights when their ‘casual dress’ ushered in a ‘casual mentality’ about worship. Overall, it was easy to overcome and have real Church.

Likewise, I’ve heard much lately about ‘shirt tail out, jeans and jacket’ Church. I'll be the first to tell you that it probably won't hurt them anymore than it hurt us. But why do it if it's not necessary? It’s our pursuit to be ‘relevant’. Is it wrong? That is for that particular Pastor to decide.

What about our newfound infatuation with ‘acoustic worship’? Or what about the four piece bands with driving guitars? Where did it come from? We have to be ‘relevant’.

Ironically, my issue isn’t so much with any of those things. My issue, the sincere issue at the bottom of my heart, is the screaming question, “Why is the Body of Christ being driven to be ‘relevant’ to an ungodly society?” I’m not against new methods. I’m not against trying new things for various types of outreach. (I complain at my own Church when my worship leader doesn’t change up the services enough!) But where does this pressure come from telling us that we have to find some relevance to a world who, by nature, is an enemy of God?


... to be continued...
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-15-2007, 03:10 AM
Steadfast
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Who is the real culprit? Some would place the sole blame on the ‘liberal’ minded folks. I disagree. Others would say, “It’s all those holiness standards that are keeping people away.” Again, I disagree. At the risk of making some enemies I have to tell you that I think it’s a unsavory blending of those two factions. The culprit is a gross misunderstanding of real holiness on both sides.

At the risk of making enemies I’m willing to offer my opinion;
• I know some who are so ‘liberal’ that they would cast down all lines of separation from the world in a moment. Some are sincere but, ultimately, they are in error.
• I know some who are ‘holy’ to the extreme on the outward man but their spirit is vile, their demeanor is obnoxious and their attitude is self righteous. Again, they are sincere but just as wrong as the first group.

And herein lies the core of the problem in my opinion; neither understand the true nature of holiness. I’m not talking about cliché’s or yet more ‘catchphrases’ explaining how the ‘other side’ is wrong. I’m talking about knowing that the true nature of holiness…
• Works inside and shows outside.
• Convicts about inward attitudes and outward immodesty.
• Drives you to be more like Jesus and less like sin.

So then when sincere hearted men think of reaching the world you have some that want to ‘reach’ them to dress them right and others that want to ‘reach’ them while resenting the self righteous attitudes of their own brethren.

The end result?
The wholesale purchase of ‘relevance’ to make the Church look better to the world.

And the fault lies directly with both ‘sides’ of the ‘liberal vs. conservative’ mentality! But might I remind you that, in the midst of our ‘relevance’, that God’s Word demanded that we ‘be not conformed to this world but be ye transformed by the renewing of your minds’. Oh that every heart knew the dire importance of this scripture as it pertains this misperceived need to be ‘relevant’ to this present world!

First, God said, “Don’t conform to this world!” We have to stop trying to shove this precious Church, baptized in blood for redemption, into the mold of this world that is anything but redeemed! While I’m not against being ‘relevant’ to a point I’m of the persuasion that our leaders, our ministry and the heart of the Church needs to run back to a ‘renewing’ of our minds; we need to unlearn some things this world is trying to teach us! Chief among them is generations old lie that we must ‘be like them to reach them’.

The answer, in my opinion, is surely two fold;
1. First of all we need strong preachers that are not afraid to hold firm to bible absolutes. We have strong, quality possessing men among us who are sufficient for that task. Among the present group of District Youth Presidents we have are some of the finest men I’ve ever known. They, and others like them, have what it takes!

Don’t buy the lie that you have to be ‘relevant’ to the sacrificing of the very principles that make you Apostolic to begin with! Accept the fact that some are extreme in their views of standards but don’t use it as an excuse to run from what is necessary to be right with God.

Avoid making the critical mistake that far too many are making by refusing to preach passionately about real commitments! I was shocked and saddened by a conversation recently with one of the other speakers in a meeting I was preaching. He said, “I can’t believe that you preach conviction and commitment like you do! I wouldn’t do that in a million years!” When I laughed and asked why he quickly shot back the reply, “Job security! I’m not going to preach anything that doesn’t make them feel good because I want to come back again.” I could only weep and weep even now.

Brother ‘Preacher’, when you cease to preach commitment to the cause of Christ you then cease being Apostolic altogether. This Church was built on commitment to not only the Pearl of Great Price but the field in which it was purchased.

2. The second part of the answer is just as vital as the first. Those who preach a strong standard should endeavor to show the world a ‘proper’ spirit that matches your ‘proper’ attire. Too many of us have stripped the beauty out of holiness in the eyes of the people.

It’s shameful and even sinful to make our ‘holiness’ an offense to lost souls! God called you to be shining examples of ‘life more abundantly’ but far too many times long skirts come with long faces, a good sleeve length comes with a bad temper and uncut hair seems to be a ‘package deal’ with an unruly spirit!

We call them ‘holiness’ standards but is it really holiness if it’s just a church ‘uniform’ instead of an expression of a wholesome, happy life? I’ve come to call it ‘Irresponsible Holiness’ because it becomes a lie easily seen through when our appearance says “Victory!” while our attitude says, “Venom!”

We need a renewing of our minds!

Hold on to separation but hold on with a right attitude!
Preach a strong message but preach it with a tender heart!

Oh that God would restore to all of us the precious truth that the spirit of holiness was given to the Church as the ultimate outreach tool and not mortal to build walls between us! A right spirit and a holy life were designed in the mind of God to draw the world to the ‘beauty of holiness’. That’s not called ‘relevance’… that’s called righteousness.

Relevance wants to make the Church look good to the world;
Our calling is to make righteousness look good to the world!

And it’s an irresponsible holiness to live a standard or reach for the lost without making God’s righteousness look appealing to those who need it the most.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-15-2007, 06:16 AM
SDG SDG is offline
Guest


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
Has NAYC rocked your world too? Good.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-15-2007, 06:45 AM
Coonskinner Coonskinner is offline
Non-Resident Redneck


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,523
Excellent article, Brother White.

You articulated a very serious concern of my own, and did it well.

Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-15-2007, 07:18 AM
J-Roc's Avatar
J-Roc J-Roc is offline
His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
You bring up a lot of good points, Reverend, and I agree with many of them. However, with regards to relevance, I am reminded what Paul said about it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scripture
Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. (1 Corinthians 9)
So, provided this new method or approach is not breaching any moral codes, it is an effective tool for soul winning.


I am reminded of other passages with regards to all of this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scripture
The human body has many parts, but the many parts make up one whole body. So it is with the body of Christ. Some of us are Jews, some are Gentiles, some are slaves, and some are free. But we have all been baptized into one body by one Spirit, and we all share the same Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12)

I think we can substitute Jew and Gentile below with Con and Lib:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scripture
But now you have been united with Christ Jesus. Once you were far away from God, but now you have been brought near to him through the blood of Christ. For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us. He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups. (Ephesians 2)
__________________




Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-15-2007, 07:25 AM
Coonskinner Coonskinner is offline
Non-Resident Redneck


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,523
"Jew and Gentile" are not synonymous with con and lib.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-15-2007, 07:31 AM
J-Roc's Avatar
J-Roc J-Roc is offline
His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steadfast View Post

2. The second part of the answer is just as vital as the first. Those who preach a strong standard should endeavor to show the world a ‘proper’ spirit that matches your ‘proper’ attire. Too many of us have stripped the beauty out of holiness in the eyes of the people.

It’s shameful and even sinful to make our ‘holiness’ an offense to lost souls! God called you to be shining examples of ‘life more abundantly’ but far too many times long skirts come with long faces, a good sleeve length comes with a bad temper and uncut hair seems to be a ‘package deal’ with an unruly spirit!

We call them ‘holiness’ standards but is it really holiness if it’s just a church ‘uniform’ instead of an expression of a wholesome, happy life? I’ve come to call it ‘Irresponsible Holiness’ because it becomes a lie easily seen through when our appearance says “Victory!” while our attitude says, “Venom!”

We need a renewing of our minds!

Hold on to separation but hold on with a right attitude!
Preach a strong message but preach it with a tender heart!


I thought this was a very honest approach to the matter at hand for so many...I think this matter is what causes a sour taste in the mouth of many libs. From my vantage point, I see so many examples of this dilemma where you see people appearing holy in their outward standards and their attitude not matching up...so what this does is create a holy anger toward the standard that tries to sugar-coat and disguise the true matter to be dealt with. This is how so many libs feel toward standards because the standard serves as a costume. I am sure I would welcome and accept many of these standards (not necessarily for myself, but simply respect someone else's standard) if attitudes matched the standards more...but as it stands now...too many Believers are hiding behind standards to appear "Holy" and yet their conduct says differently. You have nailed it here, Elder....herein lies the crux of the matter.
__________________




Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-15-2007, 07:34 AM
J-Roc's Avatar
J-Roc J-Roc is offline
His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coonskinner View Post
"Jew and Gentile" are not synonymous with con and lib.
Is this the same as saying they cannot remain together in the fellowship (con and lib) come GC in Tampa?
__________________




Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-15-2007, 07:36 AM
Coonskinner Coonskinner is offline
Non-Resident Redneck


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Roc View Post
Is this the same as saying they cannot remain together in the fellowship (con and lib) come GC in Tampa?
I don't have time to get into this in detail today, as I have to be on a plane for a preaching engagement in a little while.

But how in the world did you extrapolate my disagreement with your analogy into a statement like this?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-15-2007, 07:41 AM
J-Roc's Avatar
J-Roc J-Roc is offline
His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coonskinner View Post
I don't have time to get into this in detail today, as I have to be on a plane for a preaching engagement in a little while.

But how in the world did you extrapolate my disagreement with your analogy into a statement like this?
Very quickly before you take flight (have a safe and pleasant trip), the scripture is talking about uniting Jews and Gentiles...and you wont allow me to substitute with con and lib....as if you are saying they cannot be united....therefore, in the fellowship, they cannot co-exist.
__________________




Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by jfrog
- by Salome
- by Amanah

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.