Church Attendance

[Michael The Disciple]

I think anyone would say the local Church is Gods plan. I believe in Church fellowship. It is being said here on AFF that I refuse to attend a Church because of having a beard and wanting to keep it. This is false. Altho I am passionate about the freedom to wear a beard it is the least issue in me choosing a Church.

I am hit always with warnings about being lost for not going to Church. But are THEY attending a Church Fellowship? Lets examine this.

What is Church? Well first off the Church is PEOPLE. Those who have the Spirit of God living in them. In this aspect of truth one need not go somewhere to be part of the Church. If you are in Christ and he in you your in the Church.

The next aspect is going to Church or we might say assembling with saints. This is very important. Do we submit ourselves to any group that claims to be a Church?

1 Tim. 3:14-15

14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: 15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The Apostle defines the local Church as the pillar and ground of the truth.

So how much false doctrine are local Churches allowed to teach and still be a "Church"?

Are our souls truly safe if we are submitted to Pastors or Preachers who teach a false and perverted foundation?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I think anyone would say the local Church is Gods plan. I believe in Church fellowship. It is being said here on AFF that I refuse to attend a Church because of having a beard and wanting to keep it. This is false. Altho I am passionate about the freedom to wear a beard it is the least issue in me choosing a Church.

I am hit always with warnings about being lost for not going to Church. But are THEY attending a Church Fellowship? Lets examine this.

What is Church? Well first off the Church is PEOPLE. Those who have the Spirit of God living in them. In this aspect of truth one need not go somewhere to be part of the Church. If you are in Christ and he in you your in the Church.

The next aspect is going to Church or we might say assembling with saints. This is very important. Do we submit ourselves to any group that claims to be a Church?

1 Tim. 3:14-15

14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: 15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The Apostle defines the local Church as the pillar and ground of the truth.

So how much false doctrine are local Churches allowed to teach and still be a "Church"?

Are our souls truly safe if we are submitted to Pastors or Preachers who teach a false and perverted foundation?

Ok now this leads to a better question then, because I agree now Ephesians 4:11-12 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; [12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ." Without this you can't be perfected. Are you a 5 fold ministry in yourself?

And once again 1 Corinthians 12 blows this theory out of the water. Unless you are the 5 fold ministry and very member in the body also?

[Michael The Disciple]

The foundational teachings of the Apostles are more than Oneness and Acts 2:38. Important as they are we cannot think all will be well if thats all we have. I believe 3 main parts are missing from Apostolic Churches foundation. Part 1.

Most teach pre trib rapture. As far as I can tell others like Dom believe Jesus came for the resurrection and gathered the saints 2000 years ago. Should one attend a Church that teaches these things? Would you be safe?

Would you actually be DISOBEYING GOD attending a pre trib Church when Paul commands:

2 Thess 2:1-3




1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

So Paul gives a strict warning to saints not to let any man deceive them.

About what? The time when Jesus will come.

Now those who say that Jesus can come any time must be deceiving the saints exactly what Paul said to not allow to happen.

They cannot agree with the Apostles doctrine that there must be a falling away first and the man of sin be revealed. They are teaching the pre trib coming of Jesus in direct disobedience.
So if one is indeed a deceiver teaching the opposite of Jesus and the Apostles are we truly attending an Apostolic Church?

Which is worse. Allow yourself to be deceived or not attend the meeting?

What if it is God forbid even worse, full preterism being taught at the local Church?

Paul writes Timothy:

2 Timothy 2:16-19

16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Would it be good to attend a Church that teaches the resurrection of the dead has come and gone? Would you be safe there?

[Michael The Disciple]

Next the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead. Most Oneness Churches teach that Jesus never even died. They teach only his body died not his person. This is possibly the greatest of heresy.

When Paul teaches Christ gospel to the Corinthians he gives them 58 verses concerning the afterlife. AMAZINGLY in this context of scripture about the afterlife and resurrection Paul never ONCE teaches saints die and are right then in Heaven.

Rather he teaches them the saints are asleep until the last trumpet when Jesus comes.

He teaches them until then they are mortal. When Jesus comes the dead and they will be made IMMORTAL.

1 Cor. 15:51-53

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Next the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead. Most Oneness Churches teach that Jesus never even died. They teach only his body died not his person. This is possibly the greatest of heresy.

? Who teaches that? What do you mean. I've never heard anyone say that.

[Michael The Disciple]

So let me pause for a few minutes here. The 2 major doctrines I have written of here are the main reasons I have not been attending a local Church for some time. The other things like the teaching that a woman is in sin if she trims her hair and she should NOT cover her head with a veil if she prays or prophesies, added with the teaching by many that a man wearing a beard is probably a homo or a drug dealer filled with pride are certainly disturbing.

Yet the foundation doctrines are first by way of importance. The other things follow.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

? Who teaches that? What do you mean. I've never heard anyone say that.

You never heard of the Roman Catholic doctrine of immortal soul? Most all Oneness Churches follow it. It says that when Jesus died he didnt really die. Only his body died and his immortal soul, his true person went on to continue living with Abraham in his bosom.

In this doctrine the SOUL of Jesus never dies and pays for our sins. If this doctrine be true then Jesus would not have been the Messiah.

This prophecy was about the Messiah's SOUL dying for us.

Isaiah 53:10-12

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

To fulfill this prophecy Jesus soul had to die. Jesus soul must have been MORTAL like yours and mine. If his soul did not die he was not the Messiah.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

You never heard of the Roman Catholic doctrine of immortal soul? Most all Oneness Churches follow it. It says that when Jesus died he didnt really die. Only his body died and his immortal soul, his true person went on to continue living with Abraham in his bosom.

In this doctrine the SOUL of Jesus never dies and pays for our sins. If this doctrine be true then Jesus would not have been the Messiah.

This prophecy was about the Messiah's SOUL dying for us.

Isaiah 53:10-12

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

To fulfill this prophecy Jesus soul had to die. Jesus soul must have been MORTAL like yours and mine. If his soul did not die he was not the Messiah.

Ok well what about this though 1 Peter 3:19 "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison."

[Evang.Benincasa]

Go Start Your Own Church

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

You never heard of the Roman Catholic doctrine of immortal soul? Most all Oneness Churches follow it. It says that when Jesus died he didnt really die. Only his body died and his immortal soul, his true person went on to continue living with Abraham in his bosom.

In this doctrine the SOUL of Jesus never dies and pays for our sins. If this doctrine be true then Jesus would not have been the Messiah.

This prophecy was about the Messiah's SOUL dying for us.

Isaiah 53:10-12

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

To fulfill this prophecy Jesus soul had to die. Jesus soul must have been MORTAL like yours and mine. If his soul did not die he was not the Messiah.

Hey, I got an idea! Go start your own church.