The Myth Of Orthodoxy?

[votivesoul]

Hello, Brethren

I share below a blog entry I wrote a few weeks back, but hesitated to post here. I was initially concerned with blowback and contention, something I haven't the time or desire to deal with.

But after some reflection, I realized I must persevere and accept whatever responses come my way from the Body of Christ. As the contents of the entry show, being open and putting ideas, even controversial ideas, forward, for the church to examine and contemplate, is of the utmost importance.

And so, with that, I leave you with:

The Myth Of Orthodoxy?

[Amanah]

Votive Soul, I read your post on orthodoxy with great interest.

2 years ago I began attending bible school, sponsored by my local UPC assembly, mainly because I wanted to immerse myself in scripture and fellowship, and deepen my knowledge for teaching bible studies.

One of the classes I took was on the book of revelations. Even though I was taught that the rapture was pretrib, and have believed that all my life, upon reading some of the passages, I could see how some could take a midtrib position.

When I began to ask questions about it, it was made plan that the topic was not open for discussion, I was to accept the teaching, pre trib was *what we believe* and that was the end of it.

Before attending bible college, I received an English BA from Rollins College. I greatly enjoyed the discussions and hearing the opinions of others. This may be why I cant abide the stifling of intellectual curiosity and the insistence on strict adherence to *orthodoxy.*

On the other hand, there must be some truths that are not negotiable, are heaven/hell issues, that we must take a stand on.

Maybe *we* feel that its a house of cards, and if anything is questioned, then everything is up for grabs and he whole house will crumble.

It's disconcerting to say the least and I'm weary of the dictatorial feel of the church, while also wary of straying into false doctrine. I don't want others to be lost.

[Esaias]

Just throwing this out there...

Doctrine means teaching. But to have teaching there must be a teacher...

Today we often get teaching from books, videos, forum discussions, etc etc.

Back then you got teaching direct from a teacher.

Nowadays everybody wants to do their own thing. Back then you were a part of a community and were willing to defer to the community unless something REALLY stuck in your craw.

Today tradition is a bad word. Back then tradition was an expression of the faith and the life of the community, providing identity.

Back then you knew who you were. Nowadays nobody knows anything.

And it's not by accident, it seems.

[votivesoul]

Thanks for responding and sharing Amanah and Esaias. I will return with more to say (write) after I've contemplated what both of you have shared. I will likely respond to each of you individually.

Thanks again,

Aaron

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Votive Soul, I read your post on orthodoxy with great interest.

2 years ago I began attending bible school, sponsored by my local UPC assembly, mainly because I wanted to immerse myself in scripture and fellowship, and deepen my knowledge for teaching bible studies.

One of the classes I took was on the book of revelations. Even though I was taught that the rapture was pretrib, and have believed that all my life, upon reading some of the passages, I could see how some could take a midtrib position.

When I began to ask questions about it, it was made plan that the topic was not open for discussion, I was to accept the teaching, pre trib was *what we believe* and that was the end of it.

Before attending bible college, I received an English BA from Rollins College. I greatly enjoyed the discussions and hearing the opinions of others. This may be why I cant abide the stifling of intellectual curiosity and the insistence on strict adherence to *orthodoxy.*

On the other hand, there must be some truths that are not negotiable, are heaven/hell issues, that we must take a stand on.

Maybe *we* feel that its a house of cards, and if anything is questioned, then everything is up for grabs and he whole house will crumble.

It's disconcerting to say the least and I'm weary of the dictatorial feel of the church, while also wary of straying into false doctrine. I don't want others to be lost.

My wife received an Associate's Degree in Theology and Christian Service from Apostolic Bible Institute in St. Paul, Minnesota just before we wed.

In one of her classes, taught by the president of the school, who is also the pastor of the connected church, she was taught that the Great Tribulation is actually fourteen years long, not seven as so many have claimed.

She was required to write an essay on the subject, and so she did, attempting to refute the claim. Her essay was rejected and she was told she had to write a new essay upholding the view taught by ABI, in order to prove that she at least grasped the concept, even if she didn't agree.

If she had refused, she would have received no credit, or a "0" for the assignment, and thus, would have failed the class and not received her Associate's Degree.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

My wife received an Associate's Degree in Theology and Christian Service from Apostolic Bible Institute in St. Paul, Minnesota just before we wed.

In one of her classes, taught by the president of the school, who is also the pastor of the connected church, she was taught that the Great Tribulation is actually fourteen years long, not seven as so many have claimed.

She was required to write an essay on the subject, and so she did, attempting to refute the claim. Her essay was rejected and she was told she had to write a new essay upholding the view taught by ABI, in order to prove that she at least grasped the concept, even if she didn't agree.

If she had refused, she would have received no credit, or a "0" for the assignment, and thus, would have failed the class and not received her Associate's Degree.

I graduated from a state university in 2009. I was required to take a 400 level general education capstone course called "World of Ideas".

There were about 20 different World of Ideas courses available. I had to choose one. The one I picked ended up being one in which the Bible was discussed at length.

The professor and I went round and round. It was a good time, overall, even as it was a frustration. The class discussion generated a lot of opportunity to talk about the Lord in front of my classmates.

Notwithstanding, I personally don't advocate anyone attend secular university as a believer unless they are fully committed to one of two mutually exclusive approaches:

1.) Go in full gospel guns blazing, and attend in order to evangelize

or

2.) Tuck you head, hide your faith, and get your degree with as little commotion as possible.

Secular university is no place for straddling the fence.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Just throwing this out there...

Doctrine means teaching. But to have teaching there must be a teacher...

Today we often get teaching from books, videos, forum discussions, etc etc.

Back then you got teaching direct from a teacher.

Nowadays everybody wants to do their own thing. Back then you were a part of a community and were willing to defer to the community unless something REALLY stuck in your craw.

Today tradition is a bad word. Back then tradition was an expression of the faith and the life of the community, providing identity.

Back then you knew who you were. Nowadays nobody knows anything.

And it's not by accident, it seems.

This reminds me of Paul's statement to the Corinthians about having 10,000 instructors in Christ.

I agree that it seems everyone wants to be the authoritative Bible teacher. Rarely do I find anyone willing to sit down, shut up, and listen and learn from someone else for a change (Conversely, sometimes it seems all anyone wants to do is sit down, shut up, and listen to someone else without ever actually taking to heart and applying what is being said so they can grow and mature and find their own place in the service of God).

The teacher gifting from Ephesians 4 is as much by grace as any of the other gifts, and yet, like the other four gifts, it seems like people just assume they can step up and be one or more of the five gifts without the actual prerequisite grace from God.

It seems to stem from a lack of humility and a willingness to abrogate Biblical requirements for the service of God in order to scratch a carnal itch in the Church.

[Amanah]

Votivesoul, thank you for the thoughtful/spiritual responses

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Votive Soul, I read your post on orthodoxy with great interest.

2 years ago I began attending bible school, sponsored by my local UPC assembly, mainly because I wanted to immerse myself in scripture and fellowship, and deepen my knowledge for teaching bible studies.

One of the classes I took was on the book of revelations. Even though I was taught that the rapture was pretrib, and have believed that all my life, upon reading some of the passages, I could see how some could take a midtrib position.

When I began to ask questions about it, it was made plan that the topic was not open for discussion, I was to accept the teaching, pre trib was *what we believe* and that was the end of it.

Before attending bible college, I received an English BA from Rollins College. I greatly enjoyed the discussions and hearing the opinions of others. This may be why I cant abide the stifling of intellectual curiosity and the insistence on strict adherence to *orthodoxy.*

On the other hand, there must be some truths that are not negotiable, are heaven/hell issues, that we must take a stand on.

Maybe *we* feel that its a house of cards, and if anything is questioned, then everything is up for grabs and he whole house will crumble.

It's disconcerting to say the least and I'm weary of the dictatorial feel of the church, while also wary of straying into false doctrine. I don't want others to be lost.

This is why I left the UPCI. No true mentoring. No help with advancement or placement in ministry. You are to submit. turn off your brain, and there is no need to seek God for direction or goal making since the purpose of your life is to be be a pew potato while those of certain royal families within the movement get to pastor.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Votivesoul, thank you for the thoughtful/spiritual responses

You're welcome.