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08-03-2015, 07:46 AM
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Overcoming accusations of circular reasoning.
Has anyone ever been accused of circular reasoning when debating a non-believer and how did you overcome or refute the charge?
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08-03-2015, 09:52 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tennessee
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Re: Overcoming accusations of circular reasoning.
Without faith in someone's life our reasoning may be circular; if I understand what is meant by circular reasoning. A point I like to make is if I am wrong a person has lost nothing, but are benefited by the christian principles we live by. If I am right they will have inherited eternal life. It is a win,win. Oh, taste and see that the Lord is good.
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08-03-2015, 10:03 AM
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Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
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Re: Overcoming accusations of circular reasoning.
A circular argument is saying something like, "I am right because I am right." If you are not arguing that way, then explain what a circular argument is and explain why you're not doing that. Maybe you are arguing circularly. Give an example of your argument.
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...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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08-03-2015, 06:05 PM
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Re: Overcoming accusations of circular reasoning.
An atheist may say we are being circular when we say things like "The Bible says some X"; therefore that X proves the Bible is true". No actual proof is presented in such speech. To be circular in one's reasoning is to always circle back to the premise of an argument to prove the validity of the conclusion. It's very related to begging the question, or petitio principe.
It is a logical fallacy that needs to be avoided.
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08-03-2015, 06:36 PM
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Re: Overcoming accusations of circular reasoning.
At the end of the day our Christian faith is just that, based on faith. I don't think you can logically convince a atheist. You can defuse and answer a lot of their questions but they need a supernatural touch of God from having a honest heart and being a true seeker to be reached.
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"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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08-03-2015, 08:31 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ.: Baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus in 1982.
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Re: Overcoming accusations of circular reasoning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
At the end of the day our Christian faith is just that, based on faith. I don't think you can logically convince a atheist. You can defuse and answer a lot of their questions but they need a supernatural touch of God from having a honest heart and being a true seeker to be reached.
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Amen, Beloved. We are not called to convince, but to preach.
The Holy Spirit will do the convicting on them that are called to eternal life.
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08-03-2015, 09:03 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Re: Overcoming accusations of circular reasoning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist
Has anyone ever been accused of circular reasoning when debating a non-believer and how did you overcome or refute the charge?
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I have discussions almost daily on a high level, bay area, ham radio repeater with a 68 year old avowed athiest that is a total jerk...LOL
The guy, along with many other athiest hams are venomously attacking me.(but they like me)
Here is why.
I dont say "when I got saved" to any of them, but I always say "when I received the Holy Ghost".
They have implored me to say "Jesus" or "God" rather than "Holy Ghost".
I realized that all folks claim Jesus or God to be with them, or that He at least existed, but the Holy Ghost is foreign to them. When they see I have something that they dont, they get VISIBLY jealous.
They(athiests) might say "you were a bad person, therefore you need it" and I say, "indeed I was worse than them". So I tell them "I was hand picked by God to receive it".
They come unglued when I say that....LOL
Now whenever they hear me, they think of the Holy Ghost, tongue talker tradesman that can articulate in any conversation that they can, but the only guy in the group with the Holy Ghost.
Try it sometime....Never say "when I became a believer or Christian or was saved", but just make a habit of saying "when I received the Holy Ghost"(dont say Holy Spirit though).
You will immediately stir up questions from anyone regarding the Holy Ghost...Even from the religious folks!
Last edited by Sean; 08-03-2015 at 09:59 PM.
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08-03-2015, 10:14 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,787
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Re: Overcoming accusations of circular reasoning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist
Has anyone ever been accused of circular reasoning when debating a non-believer and how did you overcome or refute the charge?
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Most people have no idea what that even means.
Description: A type of reasoning in which the proposition is supported by the premises, which is supported by the proposition, creating a circle in reasoning where no useful information is being shared. This fallacy is often quite humorous.
Logical Form:
X is true because of Y.
Y is true because of X.
Example #1:
Pvt. Joe Bowers: What are these electrolytes? Do you even know?
Secretary of State: They're... what they use to make Brawndo!
Pvt. Joe Bowers: But why do they use them to make Brawndo?
Secretary of Defense: [raises hand after a pause] Because Brawndo's got electrolytes.
Explanation: This example is from a favorite movie of mine, Idiocracy, where Pvt. Joe Bowers (played by Luke Wilson) is dealing with a bunch of not-very-smart guys from the future. Joe is not getting any useful information about electrolytes, no matter how hard he tries.
http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/i...ular-reasoning
I usually just point out nothing is true just because they say so (another circular argument), so PROVE that what I said is a circular argument
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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08-07-2015, 01:01 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,001
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Re: Overcoming accusations of circular reasoning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist
Has anyone ever been accused of circular reasoning when debating a non-believer and how did you overcome or refute the charge?
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1. By ceasing to use circular arguments
2. By showing that the same reasoning they are using to call your argument circular also applies to their argument (one method of doing 3)
3. By showing that they are mistaken and that your argument isn't actually circular
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