committing suicide with a fork

[easygo]

committing suicide with a fork .
I once was talking to a rough crusty sinner, about Jesus, and he said he has a problem. I ask what is it.
He says he has had a Vary large heavy plump women always telling him he is going to hell for smoking and drinking.
All the while she is 380 lbs and eating candy bar telling him this.
He said she was committing suicide with a fork , while condemning him.
This really made me think.
When was the last time anyone ever heard a message on gluttony.??
With eating being a sport now , we make need to examine our flesh.

Whens the last time our flesh told us the fast. Some people think fasting is eating real fast.
Or, Yes I fast breakfast everyday. But they never ate breakfast anyway.
I now have a new light on eating, Now pray I can tame my flesh.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by easygo

committing suicide with a fork .
I once was talking to a rough crusty sinner, about Jesus, and he said he has a problem. I ask what is it.
He says he has had a Vary large heavy plump women always telling him he is going to hell for smoking and drinking.
All the while she is 380 lbs and eating candy bar telling him this.
He said she was committing suicide with a fork , while condemning him.
This really made me think.
When was the last time anyone ever heard a message on gluttony.??
With eating being a sport now , we make need to examine our flesh.

Whens the last time our flesh told us the fast. Some people think fasting is eating real fast.
Or, Yes I fast breakfast everyday. But they never ate breakfast anyway.
I now have a new light on eating, Now pray I can tame my flesh.

Heaven will be a place of perpetual feasting.

[ILG]

The guy has a point....

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by ILG

The guy has a point....

Yes a point to justify his sin. Although she may be wrong too a lot of time sinners like too point things out like that to make an excuse for themselves.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Yes a point to justify his sin. Although she may be wrong too a lot of time sinners like too point things out like that to make an excuse for themselves.

But his question is, why am I a sinner because I smoke and drink but you are not when you overeat? The answer is that sin isn't what makes a sinner, but being unjustified before God is. In other words, if someone smoked and drank after they were saved they wouldn't be any more guilty than the person who was a glutton after they were saved.

[Sister Alvear]

Well, not to justify myself but I am overweight and eat less than anyone in our family...Have done treatments but up to this point nothing has really helped..

[MissBrattified]

I am up for a good discussion on gluttony, but these three things must be considered:

1. Unlike other substances, humans require food to live. That's relevant because moderation is often more difficult than total abstinence. We can abstain from drugs, alcohol and tobacco. We can't abstain from food.

2. Not all fat people are gluttons, and

3. There are gluttons who are thin.

Ergo, you can't appropriately judge that a person is a glut simply by looking at them, although it is PROBABLE. There may be other components, such as ill health, injury, disability, socio-economic level, access to healthier foods, lack of education, sedentary lifestyles/lack of exercise, etc. that lead to them being overweight.

I DO agree that it's difficult to accept a very overweight person harping on avoiding substances that are harmful to the body.

Additionally, you have this: The western world is increasingly unhealthy and overweight because of refined, processed, chemical-laden foods, complicated by technology and transportation that allows us to be more and more sedentary. These days, people have to CHOOSE to be physically active, when in the past it would have been a NECESSITY in order to work, get to work, get to church/school, etc.

It isn't as simple as: fat people are gluts and therefore sinners. It IS a problem that needs to be addressed compassionately and directly by the church. However, I object to addressing it from a point of view of condemnation. It needs to be addressed with concern for the individual and their overall well-being, both spiritual and physical. I object most strongly to people who have conquered weight and achieved a measure of health who then turn around and become judgmental toward those who haven't yet been able to do so. Why not use your victory to educate and offer a helping hand and encouragement? Becoming a judgmental, snarky, mean "healthy" person is missing the point. You've traded in your unhealthy body for an unhealthy spirit.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Well, not to justify myself but I am overweight and eat less than anyone in our family...Have done treatments but up to this point nothing has really helped..

True sometimes it is genetic and sometimes it is an eating problem.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I am up for a good discussion on gluttony, but these three things must be considered:

1. Unlike other substances, humans require food to live. That's relevant because moderation is often more difficult than total abstinence. We can abstain from drugs, alcohol and tobacco. We can't abstain from food.

2. Not all fat people are gluttons, and

3. There are gluttons who are thin.

Ergo, you can't appropriately judge that a person is a glut simply by looking at them, although it is PROBABLE. There may be other components, such as ill health, injury, disability, socio-economic level, access to healthier foods, lack of education, sedentary lifestyles/lack of exercise, etc. that lead to them being overweight.

I DO agree that it's difficult to accept a very overweight person harping on avoiding substances that are harmful to the body.

Additionally, you have this: The western world is increasingly unhealthy and overweight because of refined, processed, chemical-laden foods, complicated by technology and transportation that allows us to be more and more sedentary. These days, people have to CHOOSE to be physically active, when in the past it would have been a NECESSITY in order to work, get to work, get to church/school, etc.

It isn't as simple as: fat people are gluts and therefore sinners. It IS a problem that needs to be addressed compassionately and directly by the church. However, I object to addressing it from a point of view of condemnation. It needs to be addressed with concern for the individual and their overall well-being, both spiritual and physical. I object most strongly to people who have conquered weight and achieved a measure of health who then turn around and become judgmental toward those who haven't yet been able to do so. Why not use your victory to educate and offer a helping hand and encouragement? Becoming a judgmental, snarky, mean "healthy" person is missing the point. You've traded in your unhealthy body for an unhealthy spirit.

I think you make some very good points but I view homosexuality in much the same way as this. It is proven that some people are genetically male and female. Some are sexual perverts but some are not. what I find interesting is the way that the church gives a pass to most overweight people because they don't want to judge but do not do the same for homosexuals. Now, please understand, I am not jumping on any pro homosexual bandwagon.....I tire of the in your face attitude of the media in this case. I'm just saying....I watched a video where there were two men living together. The church would judge this as horrific. But what they could not know looking in is that these two men were born hermaphrodites and the doctors decided FOR THEM that they would both be male. They took hormones to look the way they did. They were a freak of nature and the "fix" was not their choice. They fell in love, because they had much in common. I don't know what sex either one of them is and I don't think they do either.

So, this is not to change the subject off of gluttony, but just to say, sometimes people pick and choose where they will have compassion and it is not always justified.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by ILG

I think you make some very good points but I view homosexuality in much the same way as this. It is proven that some people are genetically male and female. Some are sexual perverts but some are not. what I find interesting is the way that the church gives a pass to most overweight people because they don't want to judge but do not do the same for homosexuals. Now, please understand, I am not jumping on any pro homosexual bandwagon.....I tire of the in your face attitude of the media in this case. I'm just saying....I watched a video where there were two men living together. The church would judge this as horrific. But what they could not know looking in is that these two men were born hermaphrodites and the doctors decided FOR THEM that they would both be male. They took hormones to look the way they did. They were a freak of nature and the "fix" was not their choice. They fell in love, because they had much in common. I don't know what sex either one of them is and I don't think they do either.

So, this is not to change the subject off of gluttony, but just to say, sometimes people pick and choose where they will have compassion and it is not always justified.

First of all, I think it's missing the mark to consider gluttony a physical state rather than an act. A glutton is a person who eats to excess. There are thin people who do this, so seeing a person who is fat and judging that they must be gluts would be judging unfairly. Seeing a thin person and judging that they have mastered self-control can also be an error.

Secondly, the homosexual comparison doesn't resonate completely with me because I don't consider homosexuality to be simply "having attraction to the same sex." I consider homosexuality (or particularly, the sin of homosexuality) to be acting on that attraction.

Similarly, I don't consider a person who is tempted to overeat to be a glut. It's the person who acts on it who is sinning.

In the case of a hermaphrodite, while it is probably a relatively rare situation, such a case should be considered with compassion. I don't think there are simple, trite answers for that. Not everyone would agree with me, but then not everyone is compassionate about people who are under the control of gluttony, either.

The genetics part of being overweight pales in comparison to lifestyle causes, and the other components that I mentioned. Our culture, the way we eat and technology-supported sedentary lifestyles supports gluttony far more than genetics. In Sister Alvear's case, I have a feeling it is far less about how much she eats, or even genetics and more about WHAT is eaten. A person can eat normal portions of high-fat, high-sugar, high-carb, refined, processed, foods, and they will be fat because of it. That doesn't fall under the category of gluttony, in spite of the weight issue.