I wish preachers would....

Esaias · #1 09-09-2012, 01:59 PM

???

If you could change anything about what is preached or how it is preached, what would it be?

No, this is not a preacher bashing thread. It is sort of like a survey, trying to find out what people are wanting more of, less of, etc.

Just curious.

Oh, and I'm talking about preaching/preachers you have direct contact with. Wishing some preacher 'over there' would do this or stop that is kinda silly. I'm talking about what would benefit you, your family, and your fellowship.

Praxeas · #2 09-09-2012, 03:50 PM

Do more than read one verse then tell stories for 30 min

Titus2woman · #3 09-09-2012, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

???

If you could change anything about what is preached or how it is preached, what would it be?

No, this is not a preacher bashing thread. It is sort of like a survey, trying to find out what people are wanting more of, less of, etc.

Just curious.

Oh, and I'm talking about preaching/preachers you have direct contact with. Wishing some preacher 'over there' would do this or stop that is kinda silly. I'm talking about what would benefit you, your family, and your fellowship.

Share responsibility with elders and get a job that pays money. Or at the very least only live at the mid-mark financially of those they pastor rather than head and shoulders above their congregants.

Have open books about where the money goes so they could not do things like support extended family with money being given for the kingdom.

Not use scare tactics in preaching... i.e. "This is someone's last service"... "One time so and so sat in the back and didn't repent/submit/whatever and left and got killed in a car wreck/had a heart attack/got ran over by a reindeer on the way home from church...

That's a start.

Truthseeker · #4 09-09-2012, 04:59 PM

Understand what a real move of God is.

AreYouReady? · #5 09-09-2012, 11:28 PM

Quit acting like they are the head of Christ's church.

HolyFire · #6 09-10-2012, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Share responsibility with elders and get a job that pays money. Or at the very least only live at the mid-mark financially of those they pastor rather than head and shoulders above their congregants.

Have open books about where the money goes so they could not do things like support extended family with money being given for the kingdom.

Not use scare tactics in preaching... i.e. "This is someone's last service"... "One time so and so sat in the back and didn't repent/submit/whatever and left and got killed in a car wreck/had a heart attack/got ran over by a reindeer on the way home from church...

That's a start.

I wouldn't want my pastor working. He gets a salary like you mentioned. He 's constantly teaching Bible studies though.

samuelofisrael · #7 09-10-2012, 06:26 AM

Share responsibility with elders and get a job that pays money. Or at the very least only live at the mid-mark financially of those they pastor rather than head and shoulders above their congregants.

Have open books about where the money goes so they could not do things like support extended family with money being given for the kingdom.

Not use scare tactics in preaching... i.e. "This is someone's last service"... "One time so and so sat in the back and didn't repent/submit/whatever and left and got killed in a car wreck/had a heart attack/got ran over by a reindeer on the way home from church...

That's a start.

Elders is an APOSTOLIC DIRECTIVE by the Apostle to the gentile church. It is correct "church order." The absence of accountability to an eldership leads to many errors of honest teaching, dictatorship, over estimation of one's ability and can lead to great abuse. The "pastor" is ONE of the ministers of the fellowship, not THE master of lives of the congregation.

Financial accountability is one safeguard the pastor should covet. It elevates him above any criticism of misusing congregational monies. The elders and deacons should take charge of this work with the participation of the elected pastor. The old "one man rule" can be a prelude to many evils. Paul established elders in every new congregation. The pastor is deserving of a salary in that he serves the people in the ministry of preaching and teaching constantly. Elders also can speak and teach if so gifted.

The elders should meet with the pastor if he should be apt to use psychological tactics such as: "they left my ministry and soon after that they were injured in a car wreck." The elders are a "check and balance" ministry or should be. Every man is to The lack of fellowship accountability has led to great damage in so many once sincere congregations. The elders should be the pastor's greatest friends and confidents. Those who eschew elders eschew APOSTOLIC ORDER. And that leads to confusion, abuse and foolish errors.

Only the Scriptures rightly exegeted is the Word of God.

Michael The Disciple · #8 09-10-2012, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Financial accountability is one safeguard the pastor should covet. It elevates him above any criticism of misusing congregational monies. The elders and deacons should take charge of this work with the participation of the elected pastor. The old "one man rule" can be a prelude to many evils. Paul established elders in every new congregation. The pastor is deserving of a salary in that he serves the people in the ministry of preaching and teaching constantly. Elders also can speak and teach if so gifted.

Chapter and verse that teaches Elders and Pastors are two different offices? New Testament please.

Titus2woman · #9 09-10-2012, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HolyFire

I wouldn't want my pastor working. He gets a salary like you mentioned. He 's constantly teaching Bible studies though.

Have to ask... Why not?... want your pastor to have a job I mean...

To be clear even I am not begrudging a pastor a salary IF he actually works for the church full time although I do think many men in the role of full time church employee lose touch with what most of the people they are trying to lead are really doing in life. I am definitely for limiting that salary to the median income of those who pay it. Too often pastor drives a new Lexus while the guy paying his salary drives a 10 year old pick-up. Or in extreme cases in our area pastors have Mc Mansions, vacation properties, etc. all bought and paid for by the church... living at or above the comfort level of highest paid person in the church and equating that with the blessings of God.

Our local guys are all the single pastor model. No significant oversight.

The Lemon · #10 09-10-2012, 08:13 AM

I have read many times on this forum about elders, and obviously I have read in the NT about this as well....I suppose I am sitting here wondering if anyone has any experience being in a Church that operates with various ministries, like having active elders etc.?

I have been in the UPC for about 20yrs and have sat under three pastors, and of course have known many more...to my knowledge I know of none that operate with the level of accountability as is mentioned here in reference to elders and deacons etc. Every church I have encountered personally always has a pastor and he is the authority, all other ministries are subject to him...they don't enquire of one another or have meetings about thus and thus...what happens is that the pastor has the vision, he projects, and he gives the direction, everyone else, including the other ministers in the church are subject to him....they aske permission to do certain things etc., etc.

I would not even know how the multiple minister, level playing field works, I personally have never seen it...and I can't believe I am the only one on this forum. Generally speaking, regardless of denomination or doctrine...this is how it works, from what I have seen and experienced. If you want to preach....not only do you ask permission, the pastor must approve, and in some cases he may even give a time limit. All in all, the pastor is the head human authority, and of course, Jesus is to be the absolute authority in the Church. This is the only way I have ever seen it.

I have done my own studies about various doctrines that we are taught in the UPC and some I agree with, some I don't. Ultimately, however, the system is set up the way it is, and is bigger then any one person. Conflict of ideas usually end up just being disagreements with no real resolve...after all...the leadership and the pastor are going to do what they feel to do...regardless. I have never seen an "Open Forum", where things can be discussed in a safe and respectfull setting....never. In my opinion, that is why people come to forums like this, to discuss what in many cases would be taboo in an open setting, no matter how professional the presentation.

Some issues are horses that have been beaten...killed, and then dug up and beaten again with no resolve whatsoever. things like hair length, tithing, and pants are just a few examples of things discusses ad nauseum with no one budging from either side of the argument or issue.