But This Spake He Of The Spirit.

[Digging4Truth]

37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

This scripture was mentioned in another thread and rather than hijack the thread with this thought I decided to start a new thread.


Often when a scripture is mentioned I will go back and read it no matter how familiar I am with the scripture to check context and carefully read through it again.

I wanted to present a thought on this scripture for some discussion.

Verse 39 says the following:

But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.

He had just made an announcement prior to this verse stating "If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."

It is interesting that Jesus would say come unto me and drink when he had nothing to offer isn't it? Our understanding of verse 39 is that he was speaking of something that was not yet available. So what we have is Jesus saying come unto me, and drink when there was actually nothing available to them at that time.

But... when we look at verse 39 the wording leaves some room for interpretation.

He had told them if any man thirst let him come unto me and drink. He went on to say that out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water..

Then comes verse 39.

But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.

Read it again with this thought in mind. Say there is a sale at Walmart that was to begin at a certain time on a certain day. Right now push mowers are on sale but the riding mowers don't go on sale until a certain time three days from now.

Then someone makes a statement about mowers on sale and someone else feels the needs to clarify...

But this spake he of the push mower, which they that want to buy can receive: But the riding mowers are not yet on sale because that doesn't happen until Thursday


Jesus said... if you thirst come and drink... out of your belly's shall flow rivers of living water. And when he said that he was speaking of the spirit that those who believe on him should receive. For the HOLY spirit was not yet given.

Are you seeing what I am saying? The scripture seems to lend itself to an understanding that there was something that people did receive... but it differs from what would be available after Jesus was glorified.


I'm not making a doctrinal statement. I'm simply presenting something I saw in study this morning for discussion. Let me know what you think.

[Amanah]

I think I'm glad that I had the experience of receiving the HG and speaking with tongues as an eleven year old child.

I received it at the altar of a AoG church that I and my Catholic mother were visiting at the invitation of a friend. I was raised Catholic, not pentecostal.

I didn't have to analyze it or debate it or agonize over it, I just yielded and received it just as I yielded to God in church on Sunday, and on the way to work this morning, listening to a song "tell me once again who I am to you, I belong to you," while driving down the road, tears running down my face and talking in tonques.

Guess I'm being anti-intellectual this morning. But with a Liberal Art BA, and having studied World Religions, and having read the Buddhist, Hindu, and many other sacred writings, I thank God that I still have the ability to be anti-intellectual and just yield to God.

I'm also a firm believer in reading and studying the Bible, don't get me wrong. But in my heart I know that when I received the HG I spoke with tongues, just like the Bible said.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I think I'm glad that I had the experience of receiving the HG and speaking with tongues as an eleven year old child.

I received it at the altar of a AoG church that I and my Catholic mother were visiting at the invitation of a friend. I was raised Catholic, not pentecostal.

I didn't have to analyze it or debate it or agonize over it, I just yielded and received it just as I yielded to God in church on Sunday, and on the way to work this morning, listening to a song "tell me once again who I am to you, I belong to you," while driving down the road, tears running down my face and talking in tonques.

Guess I'm being anti-intellectual this morning. But with a Liberal Art BA, and having studied World Religions, and having read the Buddhist, Hindu, and many other sacred writings, I thank God that I still have the ability to be anti-intellectual and just yield to God.

I'm also a firm believer in reading and studying the Bible, don't get me wrong. But in my heart I know that when I received the HG I spoke with tongues, just like the Bible said.

I did too... 38 years ago. When I was 8. And I still continue to do so today.

[scotty]

Maybe it was an invitation to "come to me and drink" (drink of His words) then the option to "believe" would bring His spirit.

just babbling, lol.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by scotty

Maybe it was an invitation to "come to me and drink" (drink of His words) then the option to "believe" would bring His spirit.

just babbling, lol.

For... meaning "since", "because" or some similar sentiment...

But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.

The word for Spirit and the word for Ghost are the same word... pneuma.

But this spake he of the pneuma, they they that believe on him should recieve because the HOLY pneuma was not yet given.

The only difference between the two is that one is labeled holy... one is not.

But FOR doesn't seem to lend itself to mean OR IMO. But... I'm no scholar.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

For... meaning "since", "because" or some similar sentiment...

But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.

The word for Spirit and the word for Ghost are the same word... pneuma.

But this spake he of the pneuma, they they that believe on him should recieve because the HOLY pneuma was not yet given.

The only difference between the two is that one is labeled holy... one is not.

But FOR doesn't seem to lend itself to mean OR IMO. But... I'm no scholar.

Are you saying God has a SPirit and then has a Holy Spirit?

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

For... meaning "since", "because" or some similar sentiment...

But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.

The word for Spirit and the word for Ghost are the same word... pneuma.

But this spake he of the pneuma, they they that believe on him should recieve because the HOLY pneuma was not yet given.

The only difference between the two is that one is labeled holy... one is not.

But FOR doesn't seem to lend itself to mean OR IMO. But... I'm no scholar.

D4T, I think you raise an interesting point. I did not see what you meant in your initial post, but this post brings out what you're saying better.

It's something to give some thought to. If the scripture had read:

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (THIS spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Then, this discussion would not be taking place...lol

However, the introduction of "BUT" allows for that scripture to read somewhat differently than the traditional interpretation.

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

With that in mind, I think John was just describing what the living water meant. If verse 39 had not been out there, we might be left wandering what Jesus meant by living water.

My thoughts regarding what you're saying are not really well organized yet, so I'm pretty much thinking out loud right now.

Along the same thought of what you're saying, we can also present the woman at the well...

10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.

Again here, Jesus is speaking of living water. And from John's descriptionin John 7:35-37, we know what Jesus meant by living water.

So the question is did this woman receive the living water from Jesus on that day or not?

hmm... food for thought...

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Are you saying God has a SPirit and then has a Holy Spirit?

Well... first... I'm not saying anything. I had a thought and I am presenting it for discussion.

But... What I am presenting is that there might still have been a manner in which God's spirit entered into a person prior to the glorification of Jesus that differed from what happened afterward.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Jesus was saying that the one who believes in me as the as the old testament scriptures have said because The Law,The Psalms,The Prophets did speak of Him would receive The Holy Spirit,when Jesus would be glorified as it was not given when Jesus spoke this.

Were going to receive is future tense.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Another thought how much teaching did Jesus do about His resurrection and His Blood during His earthly ministry ?