Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Sanctuary > Deep Waters
Facebook

Notices

Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-17-2007, 04:57 AM
Iron_Bladder
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Is Father a name?

In our 21st Century Western Culture the title 'Father' is not a name. However, we have to try to instead understand the Bible within the cultural context in which it was written, which is first century and Jewish for the New Testament. So God being sovereign, can and sometimes does take words which we wouldn't normally as accept as 'proper names' as his name, for instance the verb; 'to be' in the first person singular continuous tense is used as a proper name at Exodus 3:14-15. Moses asked God what his name is, and the reply is; 'I AM THAT I AM.' Now in our culture that's crazy as this is a verb and not a proper name. However, God is sovereign and if he chooses to take this as his name, then he's free to do so, by the way the name Yahweh (Jehovah) is a derivation of 'I AM THAT I AM,' so to reject the former as Gods name is to consequently reject the latter.

The Roman Emperor took a mere title; Caesar, which means King or ruler and then choose for many generations to use this as a proper name. But hey it was his choice and we have no right to point the finger from our 21st century Western standpoint and then demand that Caesar isn’t a proper name but is a title. It was a title, but the Emperor choose to use it as a proper name.

The same is true with regard to the names ‘Father’ and ‘Son,’ I agree heartily that these in our culture are titles and not names. However, God has chosen to adopt these titles as his own names, and being God who are we, mere mortals to tell him that we can’t do this because it disagrees with our shallow and highly literalised Oneness Pentecostal theology. At Luke 11:2 the Lord’s prayer tells us that Father is his name, we never read here; ‘Our father which art in heaven hallowed be thy title,’ which we should read if Father were a title.

Furthermore, throughout the Old Testament, many other people used the designation ‘father’ as a part of their names; As an example of a few Hebrew constructs; ‘abi-asaph’ (2nd Samuel 23:21), literally reads the ‘father of strength,’ and thus means a strong man. ‘Abi-tub’ (1st Chronicles 8:8-11), literally reads, ‘the father of goodness’ and so means one who is good. ‘Abi-el’ (1st Samuel 9:1) means the ‘father of God’, and so implies that he was a Godly man. You see if you don’t attempt to try to understand the Bible within the cultural context in which it was written, then you’ll end up forcing your 21st century literalised American views upon the text of Scripture.

Finally, at Hebrews 1:4; “having become so much better than the angels, as He has obtained a more excellent name than they” (Hebrews 1:4, NKJV), Jesus Christ inherits a name which signifies his position as the father’s heir! What is this name, well the next verse (Hebrews 1:5, quoting Psalm 2:7) tells us that this name is SON. So please let’s lay aside the temptation to point the finger at God and to tell him what he must call himself, in accordance with our own predetermined theology, God is sovereign and we should be humble enough to be teachable.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-17-2007, 06:40 AM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,740
Father is not a proper name. YHWH is God's name in the OT. Jesus, a derivative of YHWH. is God's name in the NT. Jesus came in his Father's name, which is not Father. Noone called Jesus, Father.

The more excellent name, the name above all names, even all divine names of God, is Jesus.

Read this: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...5&postcount=89
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-17-2007, 07:14 AM
OGIA OGIA is offline


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shreveport, LA
Posts: 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder View Post
So please let’s lay aside the temptation to point the finger at God and to tell him what he must call himself, in accordance with our own predetermined theology, God is sovereign and we should be humble enough to be teachable.
IB, even though I disagree with your well thought out and detailed post, ending it with the above (esp. the bolded/underlined part) really shows that you don't feel that what you posted was enough to convince those who do disagree.
__________________
  • And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. [Zechariah 14:9]

  • Ignorance of the Identity of the One True God is not a valid reason to practice idolatry.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-18-2007, 05:25 AM
Iron_Bladder
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
Father is not a proper name. YHWH is God's name in the OT. Jesus, a derivative of YHWH. is God's name in the NT. Jesus came in his Father's name, which is not Father. Noone called Jesus, Father.

The more excellent name, the name above all names, even all divine names of God, is Jesus.

Read this: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...5&postcount=89

if yahweh wishes to call himself 'Father' who are you to tell him that he can't do this Mizpeh? Jesus himself told us that Father is a name and not a title at Luke 11:2; 'Our FATHER which art in heaven hallowed be thy NAME.'
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-18-2007, 07:30 AM
Iron_Bladder
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by OGIA View Post
IB, even though I disagree with your well thought out and detailed post, ending it with the above (esp. the bolded/underlined part) really shows that you don't feel that what you posted was enough to convince those who do disagree.


Well Ogia, I believe that All of us should be humble and teachable, myself included. Sadly many people approach the Bible with a pre-determined set of beleifs which they are never prepaired to allow to be challenged. It's not just most Oneness folk who have this attitude most Trinitarians and almost all JWs and Mormons also refuse to think things out for themselves. I guess at the end of the day it's all about Prayer and to that end, I'll remember the names of a few folk more diligently in prayer.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-18-2007, 01:28 PM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder View Post
if yahweh wishes to call himself 'Father' who are you to tell him that he can't do this Mizpeh? Jesus himself told us that Father is a name and not a title at Luke 11:2; 'Our FATHER which art in heaven hallowed be thy NAME.'
Can you prove that when Jesus said Our Father which is in heaven, hallowed be your name, that he really meant "Our Father which is in heaven, Father is your name"?

Because simply saying the Fathers name should be hallowed does not mean that the word Father is that name. If He had said "Our creator which is in heaven, hallowed be your name" would you say creator is his name?>
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-18-2007, 06:10 PM
mfblume's Avatar
mfblume mfblume is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
No where does the Bible ever use the term Father in conjunction with it explicitly being called a name.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-21-2007, 05:19 AM
Iron_Bladder
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
No where does the Bible ever use the term Father in conjunction with it explicitly being called a name.



Our FATHER which art in heaven hallowed bve thy NAME. (Luke 11:2).
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-21-2007, 07:16 AM
Iron_Bladder
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
Father is not a proper name. YHWH is God's name in the OT. Jesus, a derivative of YHWH. is God's name in the NT. Jesus came in his Father's name, which is not Father. Noone called Jesus, Father.

The more excellent name, the name above all names, even all divine names of God, is Jesus.

Read this: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...5&postcount=89



Please provide some scriptural proof to back up yoru claim. Yahweh simply means 'I AM that I AM,' which according to many people isn't even a title, it's just a verb repeated in the continuous tense. However, God is soverign and he can use a verb as a name, just as he can also use a title as a name, becasue being soverign he's free to choose whatever he wishes to be called, and who are we to tell him that he can't.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-21-2007, 01:30 PM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder View Post
Our FATHER which art in heaven hallowed bve thy NAME. (Luke 11:2).
That does not say "Father is your name". It simple tells us to hallow the Father's name. That begs the question still of what IS the Father's name? YOur posts more and more show you do not understand english grammar
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Just Trying to Be a Good Father Coonskinner Fellowship Hall 419 04-18-2007 12:07 PM
Birkhead is the father Pressing-On The Newsroom 36 04-11-2007 01:03 AM
Missionary Father-in-law- Barb Barb Prayer Closet 9 03-12-2007 06:02 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by jfrog
- by Salome
- by Amanah

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.