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04-09-2011, 12:21 AM
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Revelation 7:4-8
Is this the number of Jews that'll be in Heaven? 144,000? Will there not be more than this?
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"Did God intend to treat the early church different than the latter church? Did He have two programs for the church? Are people being saved in a different way today than they were in the Bible? Are there two forms of Christianity: first-century, and every century after that? No." - Jason Dulle
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04-09-2011, 12:24 AM
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Jesus' Name Pentecostal
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Re: Revelation 7:4-8
No, that is the number of Jehovah's Witnesses that will make it.
just kidding.
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04-09-2011, 12:25 AM
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Go Dodgers!
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Re: Revelation 7:4-8
It seems to be a number of Hebrews separated for a particular purpose
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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04-09-2011, 12:26 AM
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Re: Revelation 7:4-8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
It seems to be a number of Hebrews separated for a particular purpose
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I Hope you are right. It would more than likely have to be. On http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/romans14.htm
Jason Dulle says "The Gentiles are presently enjoying the benefits of the New Covenant because of Israel's unbelief, but there will come a day when the blindness of Israel will be taken away and they will be the head of the nations." <-- Which Is why I think that to be the correct interpretation.
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"Did God intend to treat the early church different than the latter church? Did He have two programs for the church? Are people being saved in a different way today than they were in the Bible? Are there two forms of Christianity: first-century, and every century after that? No." - Jason Dulle
Last edited by Monarchianism; 04-09-2011 at 12:33 AM.
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04-09-2011, 12:33 AM
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Sister Alvear
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brazil, SA
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Re: Revelation 7:4-8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
No, that is the number of Jehovah's Witnesses that will make it.
just kidding.
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got that right Sam...that is what they told me too! 
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04-09-2011, 10:38 AM
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Re: Revelation 7:4-8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monarchianism
I Hope you are right. It would more than likely have to be. On http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/romans14.htm
Jason Dulle says "The Gentiles are presently enjoying the benefits of the New Covenant because of Israel's unbelief, but there will come a day when the blindness of Israel will be taken away and they will be the head of the nations." <-- Which Is why I think that to be the correct interpretation. |
I personally disagree that Israel will be head of the nations. God is done with national distinction as far as HEAD, etc. The church is Jew and Gentile in one body.
I believe we see a pattern in Rev 5 that is repeated in Rev 7 and gives the key to who the 144,000 are. In Rev 5, John HEARS and then SEES. Same thing in Rev 7. He HEARS about 144,000 of Israel and then SEES a multitude no man could number from all nations. In Rev 5 what John HEARD was apparently opposite to what he SAW. He HEARD the LION OF JUDAH was there, but HE SAW a lamb standing who had been slain . Consider the same pattern in Rev 7. HE HEARS apparently the opposite in a specific number from a specific nation, and SEES an innumerable multitude from all nations.
Hmmmm....
I believe what JOHN HEARD was symbolic of WHAT HE SAW in Rev 5. And if that is the same situation in Rev 7, then THE 144,000 ISRAELITES REPRESENTS spiritually the church from all nations.. the true Israel of God!
Notice JUDAH is listed FIRST (Jesus' tribe) in the list of tribes in Rev 7. DAN is missing and JOSEPH is listed as a tribe. THESE DETAILS WERE NEVER SHOWN BEFORE IN ALL THE OLD TESTAMENT WHEN SPEAKING OF NATURAL ISRAEL. Something spiritual is afoot! And I am convicted that it speaks of THE CHURCH!
 I know it goes against popular opinion, but it's what I personally believe.
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...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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04-09-2011, 12:12 PM
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Re: Revelation 7:4-8
Mfblume, He may have meant that that was the time that all of Israel would be saved?
The New Testament declares this. After the last Gentile is saved, God will turn back to Israel and deal with them again.
__________________
"Did God intend to treat the early church different than the latter church? Did He have two programs for the church? Are people being saved in a different way today than they were in the Bible? Are there two forms of Christianity: first-century, and every century after that? No." - Jason Dulle
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04-09-2011, 12:27 PM
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Saved & Shaved
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SOUTH ZION
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Re: Revelation 7:4-8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monarchianism
Mfblume, He may have meant that that was the time that all of Israel would be saved?
The New Testament declares this. After the last Gentile is saved, God will turn back to Israel and deal with them again.
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What are you reading? The Onion?
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04-09-2011, 12:45 PM
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Registered Member
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Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
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Re: Revelation 7:4-8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monarchianism
Mfblume, He may have meant that that was the time that all of Israel would be saved?
The New Testament declares this. After the last Gentile is saved, God will turn back to Israel and deal with them again.
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I can accept all Israel being saved, but to say they will head the nations is offkey, I think. The church has been gentile plus jew since the start. I believe that the Bible teaches that Israel will only be dealt with by way of the church, as well.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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04-09-2011, 12:49 PM
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Jesus is the only Lord God
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,565
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Re: Revelation 7:4-8
Quote:
Originally Posted by berkeley
What are you reading? The Onion?
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This is what he is reading:-
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:29 (NASB)for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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...Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ...(Acts 20:21)
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