Romans 2:28-29

[Monarchianism]

Gentiles become spiritual Jews? True or untrue?
Daniel Segraves says Untrue: http://evidentialfaith.blogspot.com/...1_archive.html

[mfblume]

TRUE. The context in Romans 2 is not saying Gentiles are spiritual Jews, but rather Jews are not true Jews unless their hearts are circumcised. Even the Old Testament said that. But because circumcision of the heart is something for Jew and Gentile, then the IMPLICATION is there that Gentiles are indeed spiritual Jews.

Romans 11 says we Gentiles were grafted onto the olive tree, and the olive tree is Israel.

Jere 31:31 said the NEW COVENANT is for Israel and Judah, and Gentiles were allowed into their covenant without having to physically be circumcised and follow Torah. Ephesians says were were strangers from the commonwealth of Israel BUT ARE NOW FELLOW CITIZENS!

YES, we are the TRUE ISRAEL. This term TRUE ISRAEL is in contrast with natural Israel who served as a shadow of what God really wanted in the Church, just like the Passover lamb was a shadow of Christ.

[onefaith2]

I've determined to believe that we were grafted in to the lineage of Abraham by faith. To me that makes us spiritual Jews with a new convenant.

[Sam]

Two thoughts on this:

one, from a David Wilkerson newsletter
Don’t you believe that the church has replaced Israel, and that God has no covenant with modern Israel? I do not believe in “replacement” theology. God still has a land covenant with natural Israel. That covenant with Abraham has not been broken. Yes, I believe the Church is spiritual Israel under a New Covenant . But the New Covenant does not do away with His everlasting land covenant with Israel.... So I believe in two Israels: natural and spiritual. All Jews must come to Christ by faith in His shed blood. Spiritual Israel is His holy invisible Church. God’s chosen people are composed of all believers in Christ. Yet natural Israel maintains its chosen place in modern history as rightful husbandman of the land promised to them. David Wilkerson 3/25/02


two, a note in one of my Bibles, source unknown
“Political Israel was born May 14, 1948 but was born in unbelief. Righteous Israel will be born after travail in the Tribulation.”

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Sam

Two thoughts on this:

one, from a David Wilkerson newsletter
Don’t you believe that the church has replaced Israel, and that God has no covenant with modern Israel? I do not believe in “replacement” theology. God still has a land covenant with natural Israel. That covenant with Abraham has not been broken. Yes, I believe the Church is spiritual Israel under a New Covenant . But the New Covenant does not do away with His everlasting land covenant with Israel.... So I believe in two Israels: natural and spiritual. All Jews must come to Christ by faith in His shed blood. Spiritual Israel is His holy invisible Church. God’s chosen people are composed of all believers in Christ. Yet natural Israel maintains its chosen place in modern history as rightful husbandman of the land promised to them. David Wilkerson 3/25/02


two, a note in one of my Bibles, source unknown
“Political Israel was born May 14, 1948 but was born in unbelief. Righteous Israel will be born after travail in the Tribulation.”

Sam it looks like we had the same thoughts at the same time

[mfblume]

I believe replacement theology is wrong.

We did not replace Israel, WE JOINED ISRAEL. Again, Jer 31:31. That verse divides many believers. Some forms of Dispensationalism teaches that the NEW COVENANT in Jer 31:31 is NOT the covenant we have today as the church. Some even believe there are TWO NEW COVENANTS (lol). But it mostly certainly is the Church covenant. The covenant given to Israel is the NEW TESTAMENT.

Remember the Jews got in this first in Acts 2. We never came in until Acts 10. It is for Israel and we became fellow citizens with Israel. Paul said the mystery hidden from ages is the cross reconciling both Jews and Gentiles together in one body.

There is no other covenant for Israel than the CHURCH covenant of the New Testament.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Sam it looks like we had the same thoughts at the same time

no, when I saw your post I remembered those 2 notes in my files.

There are differences of opinion among Christians on this. I am not arguing here, just posting the opinion of David Wilkerson and someone whose name I did not write down when I put that note in my Bible years ago. I think it was from the same David Wilkerson newsletter but I don't remember.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Replacement theology is wrong.

We did not replace Israel, WE JOINED ISRAEL. Again, Jer 31:31. That verse divides many believers. Some forms of Dispensationalism teaches that the NEW COVENANT in Jer 31:31 is NOT the covenant we have today as the church. Some even believe there are TWO NEW COVENANTS (lol). But it mostly certainly is the Church covenant. The covenant given to Israel is the NEW TESTAMENT.

Remember the Jews got in this first in Acts 2. We never came in until Acts 10. It is for Israel and we became fellow citizens with Israel. Paul said the mystery hidden from ages is the cross reconciling both Jews and Gentiles together in one body.

There is no other covenant for Israel than the CHURCH covenant of the New Testament.

totaly agree

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by mfblume

TRUE. The context in Romans 2 is not saying Gentiles are spiritual Jews, but rather Jews are not true Jews unless their hearts are circumcised. Even the Old Testament said that. But because circumcision of the heart is something for Jew and Gentile, then the IMPLICATION is there that Gentiles are indeed spiritual Jews.

Romans 11 says we Gentiles were grafted onto the olive tree, and the olive tree is Israel.

Jere 31:31 said the NEW COVENANT is for Israel and Judah, and Gentiles were allowed into their covenant without having to physically be circumcised and follow Torah. Ephesians says were were strangers from the commonwealth of Israel BUT ARE NOT FELLOW CITIZENS!

YES, we are the TRUE ISRAEL. This term TRUE ISRAEL is in contrast with natural Israel who served as a shadow of what God really wanted in the Church, just like the Passover lamb was a shadow of Christ.

yep

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

yep

I had a typo in that quote you made of me. I meant to say WE ARE NOW FELLOWCITIZENS.

Sorry.