If Salvation is a absolute free gift..

LUKE2447 · #1 03-23-2011, 12:49 PM

... do we owe God a debt? Since I have seen people use the most out of balance absolute sense of "gift" and "grace." If we are given a gift. Isn't that freely without any necessity on our part. Does that mean we owe him nothing in return.

mfblume · #2 03-23-2011, 12:52 PM

A gift is nothing that requires owing the one who gave the gift. That is the entire difference between a gift and a paycheck. If we sin, we lose that gift, but we do not OWE anything for a gift.

onefaith2 · #3 03-23-2011, 12:53 PM

Paul termed himself as a debtor.

mfblume · #4 03-23-2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Paul termed himself as a debtor.

Not for the gift of righteousness though.

Rom 4:4 KJV Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

mfblume · #5 03-23-2011, 12:59 PM

Rom 4:4-8 KJV Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. (5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, (7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. (8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Such faith WILL WORK, but the WORKS do not save us.

LUKE2447 · #6 03-23-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Not for the gift of righteousness though.

Rom 4:4 KJV Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

If your answer is no debt at all Mike you cannot say you can lose salvation.

mfblume · #7 03-23-2011, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

If your answer is no debt at all Mike you cannot say you can lose salvation.

You misunderstand grace and works. If I lose my salvation, it was not because I did not pay what I owed God. It is because I removed myself from grace. Period.

LUKE2447 · #8 03-23-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Rom 4:4-8 KJV Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. (5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, (7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. (8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

wow... how about context of WHO he is talking to and about Mike.

start with the contrast of back ground of WHO Paul would be talking about.

onefaith2 · #9 03-23-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Rom 4:4-8 KJV Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. (5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, (7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. (8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Such faith WILL WORK, but the WORKS do not save us.

Romans 8:12
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Paul is talking about being a debtor to live after the Spirit in this context. Thats what I mean.

WE do have a debt to let the Spirit work through us the works of the Lord. If we walk not after the Spirit, we will die.

NotforSale · #10 03-23-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

You misunderstand grace and works. If I lose my salvation, it was not because I did not pay what I owed God. It is because I removed myself from grace. Period.

There is such a huge problem with this; at what point are we "Removed?"