Relationship with God

[Godsdrummer]

Over the last year I have realized that we make too much of the crucifixion of Christ. Now before you get ready to crucify me yourself for that statement let just hear me out.

First what was the whole reason God made man? For relationship based on love and not obligation. Now in order for God to have this kind of relationship he created man with the ability to choose. There is much more about man that puts us above the rest of creation, but the ability to choose is why God made us this way. So God could have a companionship relationship with one that did so because they loved him not because they had to.

Now when Adam and Eve sinned this severed the tie between God and man in a spiritual nature. Now the perfect relationship between man and God could not be the same. Now it was not as much that they had come to understand sin. As it was that they made a choice between God and knowledge. They chose knowledge. This brought spiritual death, it severed the close relationship between them (Adam and Eve) and God.

Now this did not preclude that others down through time did not have a close relationship with God. Many did, Enoch was the first of many that would continue to have a personal relationship down through the OT. Mankind as a whole would not come to this relationship, they would instead be carried away by their own lust and pleasure.

Now God used these times as examples to us in NT time to learn from.

1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

Now much has been made of the shedding of blood, and I don't want to take away from that. But I will ask this question, if it was as important as Christianity has made it out to be would not God have addressed it in more detail than he did from the beginning. Adam and Eve covered themselves with leaves and God made coverings out of animals skins.

Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Now much is made of the fact that God used animal skins to make clothing for Adam and Eve, then the story of Cain and Able, to push the point of the requirement of God for blood sacrifices for sins. And while this is true we forget sometimes that the sacrifices were only used for sin offerings after the commandmets that were given to Moses. Before that they offered sacrifices as a offering of worship to God.

Now all of this was to lay the foundation of where I want to go with this study. Most of what I have said is common knowledge but I wanted to reiterate things.

Now when God gave Moses instructions for the tabernacle he gave him specific instructions as to how things were to be set, and the order things were to be done. This was important, now God did not leave things to opinion here, he is specific. These instructions can be found in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. There are many examples of how the tabernacle was set up you can verify this.

Basicly there was on outer court with one way into this court, as one would come into the court the first thing you faced was the alter of sacrifice. This is the point I want to drive home. The alter of sacrifice is the first thing you find when you come into the tabernacle of God. At this alter was where the animal (Sheep, bull, goat, etc) was slain and burnt. This area was nasty. There was blood, suiete or ashes, bits if animal fur, or wool, feathers etc. The priest were instructed that some parts of the animal were to be saved others burned outright. So this place was a butcher block. As I write this I can see much more study into our personal life and our walk with God.

Now beyond the alter of sacrifice is the brazen laver, this is where the priest washed up. The brazen laver was made of mirrors if you please so he could see himself and get every thing clean.

This brings the priest to the tabernacle itself. The holy place

Heb 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

Heb 9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

The point to this is to point out the work that Christ performed as the sacrifice that would take away the sin of the world.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Was a once for all time sacrifice. Never to repeated again

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the age hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

What does this mean to us? That by one offering Jesus paid the penalty for all sin for one reason to bring the way back to the relationship God had with man in the garden.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Jesus said I am the door, and I am the way. We liken this to the way to salvation, yet what did he mean? John 14:6 Jesus say he is the way to the father. In John 10 Jesus speaks as being the door.

Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Speaking of the door he does not speak of salvation but coming into the fold (his kingdom) that we can find pasture. Speaking of the way, again he does not refer to salvation rather coming to the father. This is where we need to put the emphases. On relationship with God.

Now I say this because in many performance based religions the emphases is on staying save as opposed to moving into communion with God. We still look to the future in belief of a time when Jesus will sit on a literal throne on earth. Let me give a scripture the writer of Hebrew gives.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Paul speaks of those in Corinth that were not ready for the meat and they were still fed with milk because they were not spiritual.

1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

The point to all of this is God came to earth for one reason, to reconcile us back to him. To bring us back to the place where we can be a friend of God.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

We have this one caractaristic, of being able to love by choice. We are given this one life to give this love to one another and to God.
God created us in a special way, to have the capacity to love. When we leave this life this capacity will be gone in the way it is now. Too many of us are wasting this time to know and love God as a friend. And have this personal relationship with him that only mankind can have while in this life.

[khristina]

i have relationship with god too , i can feel god with me and when i pray i can get what i want
i am seriously to say this

[mfblume]

There is certainly a problem with people who get saved and do not move on to get a real relationship with God working in their lives. But I also had God show me the mistake I was making in thinking the cross is only to get us saved and has nothing to do with getting into that relationship. I actually have been preaching now for a few years that the cross is meant to be deeply and heavily involved in our walks from start to finish, especially in getting into this relationship. I look at it like the ark of the covenant sprinkled with blood from the cross for our victory! We carry that ark like carrying faith in that blood to see enemies defeated. And it brings us into the PROMISED LAND, as the ark opened up the Jordan barrier, of real relationship and kingdom living.

For example, Rom 8:11-12 says that the Spirit is meant to quicken our mortal bodies. This is not speaking about a resurrection from the grave but rather empowerment to be used of God and be freed from living after the flesh. Verse 12 shows us this is the result of this quickening.

Rom 8:11-12 KJV But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

And this quickening of the Spirit allows the Spirit to influence our mortal bodies so that we mortify the deeds of the body, or works of the flesh.

Rom 8:13 KJV For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

The above is saying that verse 11's quickening accomplishes the mortification of the deeds of the body in verse 13. Verse 13 simply rephrases what verse 11 said.

The alternative to our mortal bodies being quickened by the Spirit is sin ruling in our mortal bodies.

Rom 6:12 KJV Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

See the contrast between Ro 6:12 and Rom 8:11.

And the way to stop sin ruling in our mortal bodies and instead have the Spirit quicken us is THE CROSS. That is why Romans 6 speaks of the death, burial and resurrection leading up to the truth that sin should not rule us, because we need to have that understanding when sin tries to rule. This way we can have faith required to see sin stop ruling and see the Spirit quicken instead. That is what Jesus meant in CARRYING OUR CROSSES and following Him. The cross remains with us our entire lives. But this is an ongoing conscious reliance on the co-death with Christ we experienced to forever keep the flesh and its lusts out of our way so the Spirit can work.

We have only died once with the Lord, true. Most think, though, that means the cross is finished. But it's not. The REVELATION of WHAT THE CROSS DID must be referred to in our spirits all the time, especially when we come against attacks and battles and carnality seems to take us over. In other words, we have to go over the manner in which WE DIED WITH CHRIST every time we face struggles and battles. THE ONLY reason we have power over the enemy is because of our unions to Christ by the work of the cross. And only a good handle on that revelation and full awareness will encourage our faith for us to be able to stand up and claim the power of God. If we are not sure WHY we have power, by not having a good grasp on the cross, when battles come we will not have the CONFIDENCE we need for the faith for God's Spirit to work. God needs CONFIDENCE in hearts, because without that we cannot have faith. And without faith God cannot help us.

So the key to strong faith for God to work and for us to rule and reign in life's circumstances so that we are not kicked around all the time is to KNOW WHY we have power with God, and that this WHY is in the Co-crucifixion with Jesus.

Without THIS kind of awareness of the cross, we will be tempted to think the cross is just the doorway and we have nothing more to do with the cross as far as communion and real relationship. And we will lack required confidence that allows us to walk in faith for His Spirit to work in us.

[Godsdrummer]

Mike
Good words as always, it was the cross that brings the grace of God into our lives, it is the grace through the blood of Christ that covers our sin or else we could never come to God.

When we understand how that grace works we have confidance to come boldly before the throne of God, when I began to understand these things my relationship with God grew. I did not have to wonder about my salvation any more as I knew the blood of Christ covers me.

This is not to say we cannot become lost, after we are saved. But there is more to the teachings of Calvanism than we want to consider sometimes. We need to understand the middle of the road between once saved always saved and living if fear that if we have unrepented sin in our lives that we will be lost if not taken care of.

I like to think the cross is the Door-Way, too many just step through and never realy walk the way of relationship in victory. Instead they walk the way of trial and tribulation always fighting the flesh. There is a better way.
As you said we are never beyond the cross or else Jesus would not have instituted the last Supper, "as oft as you do this do this in rememberance of me". We should glory in the cross.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by khristina

i have relationship with god too , i can feel god with me and when i pray i can get what i want
i am seriously to say this

God bless and never lose that, grow in knowlege of God and who he is, one can never learn all there is of God. Just like a natural friend the more we know of them the closer we get to them, the word of God is the best sourse of knowlege of God. Just don't fall into the rut of mans traditions.

[fl4christ]

Interesting comments and I agree about The Word of GOD being an excellent source for learning of HIM. But learning of HIM doesn't guarantee a personal relationship with HIM either. For those who read about HIM and can't help but fall in love with HIM because the Bible shows us HIS character, it helps us to recognize HIS divine hand in our own lives, and feel the love HE puts into everything that HE does for us. For others it is something to study with the carnal mind, trying to tap into something that is not meant for it in the first place. Truly there is a difference between knowing about someone and actually knowing someone. The beauty of the cross is the resurrection it produced enabling each one of us to have a personal relationship with a Living GOD and not just fall in love with a character in a book who is no longer alive.

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

God bless and never lose that, grow in knowlege of God and who he is, one can never learn all there is of God. Just like a natural friend the more we know of them the closer we get to them, the word of God is the best sourse of knowlege of God. Just don't fall into the rut of mans traditions.

[fl4christ]

You know brother, I often find myself pointing out to others that it always seems like the focus is always on what we (man) lost because of the fall in the garden, and nobody ever seems to stop and think of what it cost GOD too. It is amazing the tremendous amount of unconditional love we find HIM displaying towards us in the bible, yet turn around and speak as though we are the only ones suffering because of the fall. But as you pointed out, HE created man for the purpose of having a special relationship with HIM. A relationship that both lost when one fell. What HE did on Calvary shows how much that special relationship HE had with man meant to HIM, how much it means to HIM to restore it, and established a way to restore the severed connection and open up fully the lines of communication in both directions; allowing us to individually find out who each one of us are in HIM.

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Over the last year I have realized that we make too much of the crucifixion of Christ. Now before you get ready to crucify me yourself for that statement let just hear me out.

First what was the whole reason God made man? For relationship based on love and not obligation. Now in order for God to have this kind of relationship he created man with the ability to choose. There is much more about man that puts us above the rest of creation, but the ability to choose is why God made us this way. So God could have a companionship relationship with one that did so because they loved him not because they had to.

Now when Adam and Eve sinned this severed the tie between God and man in a spiritual nature. Now the perfect relationship between man and God could not be the same. Now it was not as much that they had come to understand sin. As it was that they made a choice between God and knowledge. They chose knowledge. This brought spiritual death, it severed the close relationship between them (Adam and Eve) and God.

Now this did not preclude that others down through time did not have a close relationship with God. Many did, Enoch was the first of many that would continue to have a personal relationship down through the OT. Mankind as a whole would not come to this relationship, they would instead be carried away by their own lust and pleasure.

Now God used these times as examples to us in NT time to learn from.

1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

Now much has been made of the shedding of blood, and I don't want to take away from that. But I will ask this question, if it was as important as Christianity has made it out to be would not God have addressed it in more detail than he did from the beginning. Adam and Eve covered themselves with leaves and God made coverings out of animals skins.

Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Now much is made of the fact that God used animal skins to make clothing for Adam and Eve, then the story of Cain and Able, to push the point of the requirement of God for blood sacrifices for sins. And while this is true we forget sometimes that the sacrifices were only used for sin offerings after the commandmets that were given to Moses. Before that they offered sacrifices as a offering of worship to God.

Now all of this was to lay the foundation of where I want to go with this study. Most of what I have said is common knowledge but I wanted to reiterate things.

Now when God gave Moses instructions for the tabernacle he gave him specific instructions as to how things were to be set, and the order things were to be done. This was important, now God did not leave things to opinion here, he is specific. These instructions can be found in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. There are many examples of how the tabernacle was set up you can verify this.

Basicly there was on outer court with one way into this court, as one would come into the court the first thing you faced was the alter of sacrifice. This is the point I want to drive home. The alter of sacrifice is the first thing you find when you come into the tabernacle of God. At this alter was where the animal (Sheep, bull, goat, etc) was slain and burnt. This area was nasty. There was blood, suiete or ashes, bits if animal fur, or wool, feathers etc. The priest were instructed that some parts of the animal were to be saved others burned outright. So this place was a butcher block. As I write this I can see much more study into our personal life and our walk with God.

Now beyond the alter of sacrifice is the brazen laver, this is where the priest washed up. The brazen laver was made of mirrors if you please so he could see himself and get every thing clean.

This brings the priest to the tabernacle itself. The holy place

Heb 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

Heb 9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

The point to this is to point out the work that Christ performed as the sacrifice that would take away the sin of the world.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Was a once for all time sacrifice. Never to repeated again

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the age hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

What does this mean to us? That by one offering Jesus paid the penalty for all sin for one reason to bring the way back to the relationship God had with man in the garden.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Jesus said I am the door, and I am the way. We liken this to the way to salvation, yet what did he mean? John 14:6 Jesus say he is the way to the father. In John 10 Jesus speaks as being the door.

Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Speaking of the door he does not speak of salvation but coming into the fold (his kingdom) that we can find pasture. Speaking of the way, again he does not refer to salvation rather coming to the father. This is where we need to put the emphases. On relationship with God.

Now I say this because in many performance based religions the emphases is on staying save as opposed to moving into communion with God. We still look to the future in belief of a time when Jesus will sit on a literal throne on earth. Let me give a scripture the writer of Hebrew gives.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Paul speaks of those in Corinth that were not ready for the meat and they were still fed with milk because they were not spiritual.

1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

The point to all of this is God came to earth for one reason, to reconcile us back to him. To bring us back to the place where we can be a friend of God.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

We have this one caractaristic, of being able to love by choice. We are given this one life to give this love to one another and to God.
God created us in a special way, to have the capacity to love. When we leave this life this capacity will be gone in the way it is now. Too many of us are wasting this time to know and love God as a friend. And have this personal relationship with him that only mankind can have while in this life.

[fl4christ]

I have always found that as we grow in the knowledge and understanding of who we really are, the more we tend to act accordingly; taking HIS Word as to our true identity over the life that our flesh and HIS enemy tries to dictate and convince us is us. The simplest way of summing it up is like the bumper sticker I saw one time read - we are not human beings having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having a human experience. The very first thing GOD replied to Adam when they were hiding from HIM was - "who told you that you are naked". Which you'll never convince me was someone telling them that they needed to put clothes on; but rather someone convinced them that they were the bodies that they inhabited, rather than the life dwelling inside those bodies. When they were the life inside those bodies, they were clothed in skin. Remember- GOD made man, AND THEN created a body out of the dust of the earth and placed him in it. When Adam awoke from his sleep he looked and saw part of himself inside another body and declared her to be "woman". There is no way that a man(after the flesh) would look at a female body and claim that's me. But he was looking at the life inside the body and recognized himself. The same way that CHRIST looks inside of us and recognizes HIMSELF also.

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Over the last year I have realized that we make too much of the crucifixion of Christ. Now before you get ready to crucify me yourself for that statement let just hear me out.

First what was the whole reason God made man? For relationship based on love and not obligation. Now in order for God to have this kind of relationship he created man with the ability to choose. There is much more about man that puts us above the rest of creation, but the ability to choose is why God made us this way. So God could have a companionship relationship with one that did so because they loved him not because they had to.

Now when Adam and Eve sinned this severed the tie between God and man in a spiritual nature. Now the perfect relationship between man and God could not be the same. Now it was not as much that they had come to understand sin. As it was that they made a choice between God and knowledge. They chose knowledge. This brought spiritual death, it severed the close relationship between them (Adam and Eve) and God.

Now this did not preclude that others down through time did not have a close relationship with God. Many did, Enoch was the first of many that would continue to have a personal relationship down through the OT. Mankind as a whole would not come to this relationship, they would instead be carried away by their own lust and pleasure.

Now God used these times as examples to us in NT time to learn from.

1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

Now much has been made of the shedding of blood, and I don't want to take away from that. But I will ask this question, if it was as important as Christianity has made it out to be would not God have addressed it in more detail than he did from the beginning. Adam and Eve covered themselves with leaves and God made coverings out of animals skins.

Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Now much is made of the fact that God used animal skins to make clothing for Adam and Eve, then the story of Cain and Able, to push the point of the requirement of God for blood sacrifices for sins. And while this is true we forget sometimes that the sacrifices were only used for sin offerings after the commandmets that were given to Moses. Before that they offered sacrifices as a offering of worship to God.

Now all of this was to lay the foundation of where I want to go with this study. Most of what I have said is common knowledge but I wanted to reiterate things.

Now when God gave Moses instructions for the tabernacle he gave him specific instructions as to how things were to be set, and the order things were to be done. This was important, now God did not leave things to opinion here, he is specific. These instructions can be found in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. There are many examples of how the tabernacle was set up you can verify this.

Basicly there was on outer court with one way into this court, as one would come into the court the first thing you faced was the alter of sacrifice. This is the point I want to drive home. The alter of sacrifice is the first thing you find when you come into the tabernacle of God. At this alter was where the animal (Sheep, bull, goat, etc) was slain and burnt. This area was nasty. There was blood, suiete or ashes, bits if animal fur, or wool, feathers etc. The priest were instructed that some parts of the animal were to be saved others burned outright. So this place was a butcher block. As I write this I can see much more study into our personal life and our walk with God.

Now beyond the alter of sacrifice is the brazen laver, this is where the priest washed up. The brazen laver was made of mirrors if you please so he could see himself and get every thing clean.

This brings the priest to the tabernacle itself. The holy place

Heb 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

Heb 9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

The point to this is to point out the work that Christ performed as the sacrifice that would take away the sin of the world.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Was a once for all time sacrifice. Never to repeated again

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the age hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

What does this mean to us? That by one offering Jesus paid the penalty for all sin for one reason to bring the way back to the relationship God had with man in the garden.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Jesus said I am the door, and I am the way. We liken this to the way to salvation, yet what did he mean? John 14:6 Jesus say he is the way to the father. In John 10 Jesus speaks as being the door.

Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Speaking of the door he does not speak of salvation but coming into the fold (his kingdom) that we can find pasture. Speaking of the way, again he does not refer to salvation rather coming to the father. This is where we need to put the emphases. On relationship with God.

Now I say this because in many performance based religions the emphases is on staying save as opposed to moving into communion with God. We still look to the future in belief of a time when Jesus will sit on a literal throne on earth. Let me give a scripture the writer of Hebrew gives.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Paul speaks of those in Corinth that were not ready for the meat and they were still fed with milk because they were not spiritual.

1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

The point to all of this is God came to earth for one reason, to reconcile us back to him. To bring us back to the place where we can be a friend of God.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

We have this one caractaristic, of being able to love by choice. We are given this one life to give this love to one another and to God.
God created us in a special way, to have the capacity to love. When we leave this life this capacity will be gone in the way it is now. Too many of us are wasting this time to know and love God as a friend. And have this personal relationship with him that only mankind can have while in this life.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by fl4christ

I have always found that as we grow in the knowledge and understanding of who we really are, the more we tend to act accordingly; taking HIS Word as to our true identity over the life that our flesh and HIS enemy tries to dictate and convince us is us. The simplest way of summing it up is like the bumper sticker I saw one time read - we are not human beings having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having a human experience. The very first thing GOD replied to Adam when they were hiding from HIM was - "who told you that you are naked". Which you'll never convince me was someone telling them that they needed to put clothes on; but rather someone convinced them that they were the bodies that they inhabited, rather than the life dwelling inside those bodies. When they were the life inside those bodies, they were clothed in skin. Remember- GOD made man, AND THEN created a body out of the dust of the earth and placed him in it. When Adam awoke from his sleep he looked and saw part of himself inside another body and declared her to be "woman". There is no way that a man(after the flesh) would look at a female body and claim that's me. But he was looking at the life inside the body and recognized himself. The same way that CHRIST looks inside of us and recognizes HIMSELF also.

Good word
Must say I never saw it that way, but does make sence.