Selfishness

[Jeffrey]

The underlying struggle beneath all sins. The stumbling block to compassionate Agape love. But does such a selfless man truly exist? Even if one acts in a moment of selflessness and dons the title of "hero" is there truly any not self-seeking, self-preserving and somehow, somewhere looking out for their own best?

Even those who modestly serve others, they enjoy the praise and affirmation from others. It motivates them.

What is man without any hint of selfishness?

Is God selfish? Are we in His image? Is this a flaw or a godly imprimatur? Or is this an area that separates the Divine from the Finite?

Some random thoughts. I sat convicted about selfishness. And as I began to reflect on it, I wrestled with the question. What does the end look like? How selfless is selfless? Matthew 5-7 exemplifies selflessness, a goal we all fall short in. All of us are guilty in this area. What does such a man look like? I know, I know... Jesus! That's what he looks like. But what does he look like today? Who has only the interest of the Father in mind?

Random thoughts. Wondering what you think? Are you selfish? What do you think about your selfishness? C.S. Lewis sums it up:

All this is flashy rhetoric about loving you.
I never had a selfless thought since I was born.
I am mercenary and self-seeking through and through;
I want God, you, all friends, merely to serve my turn.

Peace, reassurance, pleasure, are the goals I seek,
I cannot crawl one inch outside my proper skin;
I talk of love - a scholar's parrot may talk Greek -
But, self-imprisoned, always end where I begin.

[SteppingStone]

1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

There will always be a spirit that try's to creep in and make you believe that you are ONLY in it for yourself, that's just a cheap distraction the enemy uses to deter you. Part of doing the will of God actually requires that you believe He will reward you. Everyone that wins a race receives a prize, the laborer is worthy of his hire...

[pelathais]

Ayn Rand's doctrine of Objectivism is a popular way of looking at selfishness, even for many Christians despite Rand's professed atheism.

In her essay "The Virtue of Selfishness" she encourages her readers toward an educated or enlightened view of pursuing one's own self interests.

In being "selfish" and pursuing your own self interest, there are many checks along the way that will curb destructive hedonism and greed. For example, though it may be in my own self interests to accumulate a large store of cash, it is in my higher self interest that the society I live in is relatively safe, stable and crime free - therefore I will not rob banks to get the cash, because I have chosen to follow a higher level of self interest than just the accumulation of wealth.

Ultimately, Rand concludes that the Golden Rule is the epitome of the Virtue of Selfishness. In the pursuit of my own self interests it is wisest to consider the self interests of others and to cooperate toward a mutually beneficial goal.

[Jeffrey]

Pel, very interesting you used Rand because I thought of her when writing this post.

Your example, is one self-interest consideration supporting another. The end result is still selfishness, and a long ways from Matthew 5-7, which Rand would spit on as stripping man from all that is virtuous.

(Ironic story how Rand's life unfolded by the way)

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Pel, very interesting you used Rand because I thought of her when writing this post.

Your example, is one self-interest consideration supporting another. The end result is still selfishness, and a long ways from Matthew 5-7, which Rand would spit on as stripping man from all that is virtuous.

(Ironic story how Rand's life unfolded by the way)

She certainly isn't the paragon of virtue, but as a modern philosopher she had some compelling thoughts and was influential.

But I disagree about your Matthew 5-7, complaint (and I'd rather not speculate on the expectorations of dead 20th century writers). Also, we must be careful to observe the instructions of Matthew 7:1-5.

The ultimate goal of those seeking to observe the teachings from the Sermon on the Mount is not only to be a "good tree, bearing good fruit..." but to also be the "house that fell not because it was founded upon the rock..."

To accomplish both goals we need to be a little bit "selfish" - in a very enlightened manner. Altruism itself is a "selfish" means toward a "selfish" goal. To be truly selfless I think one has to be a bit selfish.

It all just depends upon the goals in mind. Remember the very similar statements Jesus made in the Sermon on the Plain (Luke 6:17-49). Is the "giver" in Luke 6:38 being generous or selfish?

"Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again."

[Brad Murphy]

I believe in selfishness. It is really about self-reliance and self-sufficiency which to me are some of the most important virtues a person can have (yes, I'm a big proponent of Rand.)

I've seen the other end of the spectrum where people quit their jobs when they can't get off to go to a youth conference, using the reasoning that God will provide them with another job...

or end up being close to retirement with nothing to show for it because you've given everything away your entire life... to the point that you don't even own your home or your car or have any financial stability whatsoever.

Some of us have to be selfish to compensate for the ones who are not selfish... I know what the Bible says... but at some point you have to stop waiting for God (or other people) to fix your problems and start fixing them yourself. I would also add, that you have to be selfish at some point to climb the financial stability ladder. If you gave away every opportunity that you have ever been given, then you will never be financially stable and will be less likely to be able to help others because you are so busy dealing with your own financial stability...

Judge me if you wish, I don't care.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by pelathais

She certainly isn't the paragon of virtue, but as a modern philosopher she had some compelling thoughts and was influential.

But I disagree about your Matthew 5-7, complaint (and I'd rather not speculate on the expectorations of dead 20th century writers). Also, we must be careful to observe the instructions of Matthew 7:1-5.

The ultimate goal of those seeking to observe the teachings from the Sermon on the Mount is not only to be a "good tree, bearing good fruit..." but to also be the "house that fell not because it was founded upon the rock..."

To accomplish both goals we need to be a little bit "selfish" - in a very enlightened manner. Altruism itself is a "selfish" means toward a "selfish" goal. To be truly selfless I think one has to be a bit selfish.

It all just depends upon the goals in mind. Remember the very similar statements Jesus made in the Sermon on the Plain (Luke 6:17-49). Is the "giver" in Luke 6:38 being generous or selfish?

"Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again."

Interesting.

I think Objevtivism can take us awhile, of course, only so far. My speculation regarding what Ayn Rand would do to the Sermon on the Mount is almost explicit in her magnum opus, Atlas Shrugged. She shreds the "mystics" almost as much as the moochy, relativists politicians and philosophers.

What is it you disagree with me about concerning Matthew 5-7? I find we all fall miserably short of this ideal. Do you agree?

I'm not sure of your "judge not" reference (Mat 7). What was that all about?

Your point about being selfish in an "enlightened" way is necessary for one's own sake, and perhaps as much as it has to do with protecting that relationship with Jesus.

Luke 6
Give away your life; you'll find life given back, but not merely given back—given back with bonus and blessing. Giving, not getting, is the way. Generosity begets generosity."

There is certainly this tension of giving one's self away, with the indication that a reward is promised. It's the paradox of the entire Gospel. The selfless lives life more fully. The poor in spirit, the meek, the merciful, they live life more fully.