United Pentecostal or Divided Pentecostal

Jack Shephard · #1 05-12-2010, 03:01 PM

I am sitting here before work and I am watching Pastor Tommy Bates from KY preaching. He is an old time Pentecostal preacher. He is preaching at a church that used to be Southern Baptist but it is now a Non-Denominal church. He was is talking about holding to a title. He names several denominations like Southern Baptist, etc. He mentioned United Pentecostal or Divided Pentecostal. I thought it was funny when heared in context. He is talking about holding to God's move and not to a title.

It got me to thinking. I know that we are not all UPC but as a whole are we a United Pentecostal Church or a Divided Pentecostal Church? He is talking about a time he and his family was asked to sing at a Pentecostal Church and they followed ALL the standards but they were all baptized in the titles. The pastor told them since they weren't baptized in Jesus name that they couldn't sing on the platform. I know that many of us like to hold our titles. It is funny that people that love holding on to a title are against baptizing in titles.

Even though there are fellowship lines that we may not cross now, but why? Why are we not A unified church across all lines? Why aren't we Pentecostals meeting with those that aren't just like us? Are we SO caught up with doctrine that we forsake fellowship? Why? Are there any people on here that are like me that think that we MUST fellowship with others inorder to make full advantage of what God wants us to accomplish? Sorry this is so lengthy.

I think that God's spirit is SO strong that if we are to fellowship others they will want a touch of the HG like that is on most of us. But sad to say that because we don't fellowship and we draw lines of division it make them not want ANYTHING we have.

POWERUP · #2 05-12-2010, 04:04 PM

Jtullock,
I've got to agree with you on this. If you read some of my earlier post you will know
more about me, and where I come from.

Even while I was in the UPC(Held licences for 17 years) Not one time did I ever stand
in a pulpit at my home church or away and tell people unless you are baptized in
Jesus name you are going to hell.

Just couldn't do it. Was I baptized in Jesus Name? Yes. That is how I was baptized and raised. I
will never condemm anyone for the way they see salvation.

The way I see it...............I don't care how you see salvation. Just let me see some
fruit. Trust me. If you are truly saved...................you will bear fruit!!!

No fruit on the tree. Don't attempt to tell me how to be saved. I think we all know
what the fruit is.

Have a good rest of the day..........

scotty · #3 05-12-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Even though there are fellowship lines that we may not cross now, but why? Why are we not A unified church across all lines? Why aren't we Pentecostals meeting with those that aren't just like us? Are we SO caught up with doctrine that we forsake fellowship? Why? .

One word for ya .......PRIDE

sad huh ?

OneAccord · #4 05-12-2010, 04:50 PM

I think one of the problems is that we have forgotten just what it means to be "united". Pentecostals were united at the turn of the 20th century because their unity was of a spiritual nature rather than a doctrinal nature. Azusa Steert was able to transpire becaue there were virtually no doctrinal or denominational lines to cross. But that began to change as the Pentecostal Movement began to move accross the country. The spiritual harmony took second place as doctrine began to be established as the dividing line.

Even when the UPC was formed, it was initially based on spiritual harmony. The merger didn't rest on how or if the PCI/PAJC difference would be or could be worked out. The doctrinal difference was set aside (at least for awhile) while the organization based itself on Spiritual Unity as the name UPC implies. So, once the merger was complete and the UPC began to move forward, doctrine once again became the issue and, well, look where it (and we) are today.

The fact is, Jesus prayed for the unity of His Church. That unity wasn't a doctrinal unit, it was a Spiritual Unity that comes only through and by the Holy Spirit. Lets face it... we will never be a doctrinally united people. Our Unity is the shared experience of being baptized with the Holy Ghost "By one spirit", Paul wrote, "are we all baptized into one body...." BTW, Tommy Bates is a fine preacher . He preaches "holiness" but not "standards". I think you're right Brother. Jesus siad in Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Until we come together in the Spirit of God the world will never believe us... nor will they believe Jesus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I am sitting here before work and I am watching Pastor Tommy Bates from KY preaching. He is an old time Pentecostal preacher. He is preaching at a church that used to be Southern Baptist but it is now a Non-Denominal church. He was is talking about holding to a title. He names several denominations like Southern Baptist, etc. He mentioned United Pentecostal or Divided Pentecostal. I thought it was funny when heared in context. He is talking about holding to God's move and not to a title.

It got me to thinking. I know that we are not all UPC but as a whole are we a United Pentecostal Church or a Divided Pentecostal Church? He is talking about a time he and his family was asked to sing at a Pentecostal Church and they followed ALL the standards but they were all baptized in the titles. The pastor told them since they weren't baptized in Jesus name that they couldn't sing on the platform. I know that many of us like to hold our titles. It is funny that people that love holding on to a title are against baptizing in titles.

Even though there are fellowship lines that we may not cross now, but why? Why are we not A unified church across all lines? Why aren't we Pentecostals meeting with those that aren't just like us? Are we SO caught up with doctrine that we forsake fellowship? Why? Are there any people on here that are like me that think that we MUST fellowship with others inorder to make full advantage of what God wants us to accomplish? Sorry this is so lengthy.

I think that God's spirit is SO strong that if we are to fellowship others they will want a touch of the HG like that is on most of us. But sad to say that because we don't fellowship and we draw lines of division it make them not want ANYTHING we have.

pelathais · #5 05-12-2010, 06:24 PM

The "titles" of Matthew 28:19, are not really comparable to human or organizational titles. One really cannot make a comparison equating Matthew 28:19, with the titles "Southern Baptist Convention" or "U.P.C.I."

On this point, the problem you describe disappears.

Jack Shephard · #6 05-12-2010, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

The "titles" of Matthew 28:19, are not really comparable to human or organizational titles. One really cannot make a comparison equating Matthew 28:19, with the titles "Southern Baptist Convention" or "U.P.C.I."

On this point, the problem you describe disappears.

The problem I was maily addressing is that there is no fellowship across denominational lines.

rgcraig · #7 05-12-2010, 06:38 PM

United we stand - divided we fall!

shag · #8 05-12-2010, 06:38 PM

Gotta getalong and fellowship inside and org B4 U can getalong and fellowship outside of it.......(or do ya)

pelathais · #9 05-12-2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

The problem I was maily addressing is that there is no fellowship across denominational lines.

According to the "Three Step" creed there should not be any fellowship across denominational lines. If you have not been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and spoken in tongues then you are not even a Christian and should be treated like "the world."

As understood the "titles" point that was being made (not by you - but by the fellow preaching it) - it just seemed to be a huge non sequitur to me. Maybe I missed something about it.

Jack Shephard · #10 05-12-2010, 06:57 PM

I would love to see a day when the 3 steppers would fellowship others. I wonder if some don't not because of the they are lost deal but because they are worried saints might leave...??? I know some UPC churches don't fellowship with other for the same reason so it would stand to reason that it would happen outside the UPCI too.