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Old 02-07-2009, 08:24 PM
areyourucky areyourucky is offline
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Incorparated church is a state controled church

The bible says take no council from the ungodly, but many churches listen to nice honesty lawyers and decide to incorporate. Please eveyone, check this link out.

http://hushmoney.org/501c3-myths.htm
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Old 02-07-2009, 08:29 PM
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Re: Incorparated church is a state controled churc

Sounds good but the state does NOT tell us what to do. I have absolute liberty in what I say and preach. We are incorporated for protection. It costs next to nothing to do so.
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Old 02-07-2009, 08:31 PM
areyourucky areyourucky is offline
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Re: Incorparated church is a state controled churc

Would you care to look into this for 5 minites.
http://hushmoney.org/501c3-myths.htm
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Old 02-07-2009, 08:33 PM
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Re: Incorparated church is a state controled churc

Quote:
Originally Posted by areyourucky View Post
Would you care to look into this for 5 minites.
http://hushmoney.org/501c3-myths.htm
Been there...done that. This is all old stuff that I've been through before. Yawn!
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Old 02-07-2009, 08:44 PM
areyourucky areyourucky is offline
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Re: Incorparated church is a state controled churc

Corporations are regulated by the fed goverment. If obama makes laws, adding to the user agreement you signed, they could by law force you to hire Gay ministers, ect.....

Also why does God need to ask the US goverment permission to open a church.
The IRS treats all corporations the same, being a church with corprate status hurts you.

If corporations protect you from being sued, that means mc donalds & walmart never got sued yet ! right.

Also how many lawyers do you know that have your interst above, them making money.
Was Jesus incorporated.
Is there anyone left who can think on there own, and not just do it because everyone else is.
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Old 02-07-2009, 09:25 PM
Jaxon Jaxon is offline
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Re: Incorparated church is a state controled churc

Believe me, there are many, many churches that have looked into every nook and cranny before deciding what type of entity they wanted to be.....and very wisely so IMO.

Jesus was not incorporated because ..............c'mon you know why.

He did have a treasurer.

A smart church/board/pastor will incorporate if they feel it is more advantageous to do so than not. Not because they feel like they have to and don't want to.
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Old 02-07-2009, 09:32 PM
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deltaguitar deltaguitar is offline
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Re: Incorparated church is a state controled churc

:g roan:gro an
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Old 02-07-2009, 11:51 PM
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Re: Incorparated church is a state controled churc

Quote:
Originally Posted by areyourucky View Post
Corporations are regulated by the fed goverment. If obama makes laws, adding to the user agreement you signed, they could by law force you to hire Gay ministers, ect.....

Also why does God need to ask the US goverment permission to open a church.
The IRS treats all corporations the same, being a church with corprate status hurts you.

If corporations protect you from being sued, that means mc donalds & walmart never got sued yet ! right.

Also how many lawyers do you know that have your interst above, them making money.
Was Jesus incorporated.
Is there anyone left who can think on there own, and not just do it because everyone else is.
From your world view apparently, if Obama "made laws" stating that every church had to have a maroon steeple then I think you'd better get busy building and painting you steeple.

Reality of course, is a bit more clear and less paranoid. Look at the trouble Obama is having with his his stimulus bill - even with control of the House and Senate.

There are kooks out there who would like to force "them fundamentalist type" churches to hire gays. The answer to this problem is NOT found by making ourselves kookier.
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:04 AM
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ManOfWord ManOfWord is offline
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Re: Incorparated church is a state controled churc

Quote:
Originally Posted by areyourucky View Post
Corporations are regulated by the fed goverment. If obama makes laws, adding to the user agreement you signed, they could by law force you to hire Gay ministers, ect.....

And if they did, I would not follow that law!

Also why does God need to ask the US goverment permission to open a church.
The IRS treats all corporations the same, being a church with corprate status hurts you.

In over 25 years of pastoring, it has NEVER hurt me or the congregation.

If corporations protect you from being sued, that means mc donalds & walmart never got sued yet ! right.

Also how many lawyers do you know that have your interst above, them making money.

I have not dealt with any lawyers regarding incorporation or anything else for that matter. While working within the law, we have freedom. If working within the law ever hampers that freedom, I will work outside the law...plain and simple. The Gov't does not control the pulpit!

Was Jesus incorporated.
Is there anyone left who can think on there own, and not just do it because everyone else is.
I'm the LAST person to do something because everyone else does!
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  #10  
Old 02-08-2009, 07:56 AM
areyourucky areyourucky is offline
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Re: Incorparated church is a state controled churc

When a church accepts the 501c3 status, that church:

Waives its freedom of speech.
Waives its freedom of religion.
Waives its right to influence legislators and the legislation they craft.
Waives its constitutionally guaranteed rights.
Is no longer free to speak to the vital issues of the day.
Becomes controlled by a spirit of fear that if it doesn’t toe the line with the IRS it will lose its tax-exempt status.
Becomes a State-Church.
Most churches in America have organized as "501c3 tax-exempt religious organizations." This is a fairly recent trend that has only been going on for about fifty years. Churches were only added to section 501c3 of the tax code in 1954. We can thank Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson for that. Johnson was no ally of the church. As part of his political agenda, Johnson had it in mind to silence the church and eliminate the significant influence the church had always had on shaping "public policy."

Although Johnson proffered this as a "favor" to churches, the favor also came with strings attached (more like shackles). One need not look far to see the devastating effects 501c3 acceptance has had to the church, and the consequent restrictions placed upon any 501c3 church. 501c3 churches are prohibited from addressing, in any tangible way, the vital issues of the day.

For a 501c3 church to openly speak out, or organize in opposition to, anything that the government declares "legal," even if it is immoral (e.g. abortion, homosexuality, etc.), that church will jeopardize its tax exempt status. The 501c3 has had a "chilling effect" upon the free speech rights of the church. LBJ was a shrewd and cunning politician who seemed to well-appreciate how easily many of the clergy would sell out.

Did the church ever need to seek permission from the government to be exempt from taxes? Were churches prior to 1954 taxable? No, churches have never been taxable. To be taxable a church would first need to be under the jurisdiction, and therefore under the taxing authority, of the government. The First Amendment clearly places the church outside the jurisdiction of the civil government: "Congress shall make NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Religion cannot be free if you have to pay the government, through taxation, to exercise it. Since churches aren't taxable in the first place, why do so many of them go to the IRS and seek permission to be tax-exempt? It occurs out of:

Ignorance ("We didn't know any better")
Bandwagon logic ("Everyone else is doing it")
Professional advice (many attorneys and CPAs recommend it)
Does the law require, or even encourage, a church to organize as a 501c3? To answer that question let's turn to what the IRS itself has to say.

Churches Need Not Apply
In order to be considered for tax-exempt status by the IRS an organization must fill out and submit IRS Form 1023 and 1024. However, note what the IRS says regarding churches and church ministries, in Publication 557:

Some organizations are not required to file Form 1023. These include:
Churches, interchurch organizations of local units of a church, conventions or associations of churches, or integrated auxiliaries of a church, such as a men’s or women’s organization, religious school, mission society, or youth group. These organizations are exempt automatically if they meet the requirements of section 501(c)(3).
Churches Are “Automatically Tax-Exempt”
According to IRS Code § 508(c)(1)(A):
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