Laodiceans, Has the church become Laodiceans?

[robert]

I've heard Political ideology described as left...middle...right. Also as liberal...moderate...conservative. The church has chosen it seems to use this same terminology. I can't understand why? Aren't we supposed to distance ourselves from the things of this world? Revelation may be where the world came up with these words...but Revelation says it like this, cold...lukewarm...hot. (Revelation 3:15-16) As God explains it...
cold is bad...lukewarm is the worst...hot is good. Fire is always used in a positive way, it purifies, it was used during the day of Pentecost Holy Ghost experience as a symbol of God's Spirit coming to God's people. Here is the point of this thread.
Is cold: liberal, left, bad.
Is lukewarm: middle, moderate, to be spued out.
Is hot: right, conservative, good.
People are using political terminology to state their position of belief. I express myself as a conservative, right, hot...Apostolic, and I feel good about it. What is your preferance. liberal,moderate, conservative......left,middle,right....or cold, lukewarm, hot.

Revelation 3: 14-19...
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;These things sayeth the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot. I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increasing with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I council thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mightest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore and repent

[Dan'D]

Originally Posted by robert

I've heard Political ideology described as left...middle...right. Also as liberal...moderate...conservative. The church has chosen it seems to use this same terminology. I can't understand why? Aren't we supposed to distance ourselves from the things of this world? Revelation may be where the world came up with these words...but Revelation says it like this, cold...lukewarm...hot. (Revelation 3:15-16) As God explains it...
cold is bad...lukewarm is the worst...hot is good. Fire is always used in a positive way, it purifies, it was used during the day of Pentecost Holy Ghost experience as a symbol of God's Spirit coming to God's people. Here is the point of this thread.
Is cold: liberal, left, bad.
Is lukewarm: middle, moderate, to be spued out.
Is hot: right, conservative, good.
People are using political terminology to state their position of belief. I express myself as a conservative, right, hot...Apostolic, and I feel good about it. What is your preferance. liberal,moderate, conservative......left,middle,right....or cold, lukewarm, hot.

Revelation 3: 14-19...
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;These things sayeth the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot. I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increasing with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I council thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mightest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore and repent

I like the way you think, AMEN
Dan"D

[CC1]

robert,

Like many you have just taken scripture and made an application of it that suits your thinking.

In your mind someone who is what is labeled "liberal" in Pentecost is "cold" because in your mind they are not "holy" and are "sinning". However that is in your mind not in the Bible.

What I am saying is that what you yourself consider cold or lukewarm may not be so according to the Bible.

The application you made is one done by all sorts of judgemental people and as Elder Epley has noted "everybody is a liberal to somebody".

I don't know just how conservative you are but for a moment lets assume you are a moderately conservative UPC type. You would place me as one of those cold liberals and yourself as "hot". However if you wear short sleeves, watch church videos in your home, or wear a wedding ring you would be considered "cold" by ultra conservatives.

These personal perspectives mean nothing. It is the word of God that means everything and that is what I live by.

[ChTatum]

Luke 18:9-13 (KJV)
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: [10] Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. [11] The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. [12] I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. [13] And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

[robert]

Originally Posted by CC1

robert,

Like many you have just taken scripture and made an application of it that suits your thinking.

In your mind someone who is what is labeled "liberal" in Pentecost is "cold" because in your mind they are not "holy" and are "sinning". However that is in your mind not in the Bible.

What I am saying is that what you yourself consider cold or lukewarm may not be so according to the Bible.

The application you made is one done by all sorts of judgemental people and as Elder Epley has noted "everybody is a liberal to somebody".

I don't know just how conservative you are but for a moment lets assume you are a moderately conservative UPC type. You would place me as one of those cold liberals and yourself as "hot". However if you wear short sleeves, watch church videos in your home, or wear a wedding ring you would be considered "cold" by ultra conservatives.

These personal perspectives mean nothing. It is the word of God that means everything and that is what I live by.

I agree with your opinion that I did think this could be a possibility as to what is meant by these scriptures. Using political terminology as an analogy to cold, hot, and luke warm. You don't agree with my analogy, but do you at least agree with the scriptures. Doesn't God say to be one way or the other and not to be a compromiser. It seems cold could be refering to sinners, lukewarm to hypocrits and hot to those that are trying with all of their ability to please and obey God. Would my thoughts as I discribe them here be my own application of thinking or a probable interpretation of these scriptures. It seams you are trying to say there could be cold, semi cold, lukewarm, semi hot, hot. Wouldn't this make you to be creating an application of thought to suit your way of thinking. God uses three words to span different degrees of saints. One being on the low end, one being in the middle, and one being on the high end. He is using a church in these scriptures so can't we assume he could be talking to us as well.

[Sister Alvear]

when we measure ourselves among ourselves we are not wise...

I cannot agree with the conclusion...yes, and I am considered an UC....but to say those YOu term as liberal are bad...is very wrong...I know UC's that have molested children...

You guessed it...I hate labels...

It is Jesus who decides...I know UC's that could care less that the world is pershing without Jesus...I can tell it by their attitudes, their actions and their giving...I know those that are liberals that are working day and night to make Jesus known...so how does God judge this matter? I go to churches where they look like nuns and monges but that does NOT make them pure and holy...

Does this sound strange from a person that believes in standards? Probably so...however I do not think we can say who is bad or good...only GOD has that right.

Like I told a boy in my class last night we err often by not thinking things through...and not looking from God's veiwpoint...

Yes, I too know that works both ways...

I was in Egypt and they were dressed so "holy" all I could see was their eyes followering me...their holiness scared me.

[Sister Alvear]

How many cities have no one to weep over them? How many people would love to have a Bible...Just yesterday a ppor little goup of saints called and begged me to help them raise money for a roof for their church...they have the walls up...begged all over town for bricks and sand and did all they possibly could but need help...if I write this on this board asking for help you know who usually hears the cry? Those you labeled as bad and cold and lukewarm...
Do I agree with everyone on this forum? Of couse not! But you will not find me grouping them into who is bad and who is good...

[robert]

Originally Posted by ChTatum

Luke 18:9-13 (KJV)
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: [10] Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. [11] The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. [12] I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. [13] And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I'm not sure what your point is here, but are you saying the pharasee to be the one described as cold, lukewarm, or hot?...I wound consider the pharasee to be lukewarm (hypocrit) I think I would even have Jesus in agreement here because he called the Pharasees hypocrites. The publican would be considered in my opinion to be cold for he said he a was a sinner. When he rose to his feet from his prayer of repentance I would say he was hot. Ready to obey God with all his ability and to never go the way of the Pharasee or even to return to his sinful lifestyle. Was I correct that this is what you are trying to say?

[robert]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

when we measure ourselves among ourselves we are not wise...

I cannot agree with the conclusion...yes, and I am considered an UC....but to say those YOu term as liberal are bad...is very wrong...I know UC's that have molested children...

You guessed it...I hate labels...

It is Jesus who decides...I know UC's that could care less that the world is pershing without Jesus...I can tell it by their attitudes, their actions and their giving...I know those that are liberals that are working day and night to make Jesus known...so how does God judge this matter? I go to churches where they look like nuns and monges but that does NOT make them pure and holy...

Does this sound strange from a person that believes in standards? Probably so...however I do not think we can say who is bad or good...only GOD has that right.

Like I told a boy in my class last night we err often by not thinking things through...and not looking from God's veiwpoint...

Yes, I too know that works both ways...

I was in Egypt and they were dressed so "holy" all I could see was their eyes followering me...their holiness scared me.

You are right about labels, I used the label analogy because people seperate themselves from one another by using these labels themselves. People seem proud to call themselves liberals, moderates or consevatives. Jesus says about the Laodicean church that they are cold, hot, or lukewarm...these are words that he uses to describe saints in this church. The hot word seems to be the word that describes the saints that are pleasing and obeying God. Everyone should want to be hot and not the other two. Just because someone does good works does not mean they are saved...the scriptures declare this. I should not have fallen into the same trap that people put themselves into by calling myself right, conservative...but I do desire to be hot as described in Revelation.

[robert]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

How many cities have no one to weep over them? How many people would love to have a Bible...Just yesterday a ppor little goup of saints called and begged me to help them raise money for a roof for their church...they have the walls up...begged all over town for bricks and sand and did all they possibly could but need help...if I write this on this board asking for help you know who usually hears the cry? Those you labeled as bad and cold and lukewarm...
Do I agree with everyone on this forum? Of couse not! But you will not find me grouping them into who is bad and who is good...

When people call themselves liberals, moderates, or conservatives THEY are grouping themselves and dividing themselves from one another. That is why God wants us to be of one mind and one accord. It seems impossible for this to happen what with so many fighting to prove their own groups to be correct and other groups to be wrong. I know this thread is controversial, but isn't it worth discussing a sollution to this seperation problem. Laodicea in Revelation was mentioned to show a real problem that was in the church and the solution was given as well...repent...Repentance should make us want to be the hot God is describing in These verses not want to avoid the issue. Is there anyone that can say we are not live in the Laodicean church age?