Spiritual Abuse Forum???

Sherri · #1 01-13-2008, 04:28 PM

I just went to the Spiritual Abuse website that Lois Somebody oversees. Does anyone know anything about her or this site? I have never been on it before, and honestly, I don't understand what she's trying to accomplish. No matter how much it says that it's not bashing UPC, it seems that that's the agenda there.

I know and understand that there is major abuse in some situations, but there is major abuse in any organization or denomination. People are people, some good and some bad. If you choose to leave a group (like we did), I think you should just leave and not rehash all the things you think are evil about it. What is the point of "exposing" things ten years down the road? Sorry, but I just think this is wrong.

Like I've said many times, the UPC brought me to Jesus. If it were not for my heritage, I might not have the privilege of knowing Him. Were there things that were wrong? Sure! Do we do everything correctly now? NOOOOOOOOO! We are all still learning.

Just my thoughts for the day!

RandyWayne · #2 01-13-2008, 04:38 PM

I actually have a great deal of respect for the site. Granted there seem to be a few whiners in the testimony section, there are still MORE which tell of some pretty bad "abuse".

Rev · #3 01-13-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I actually have a great deal of respect for the site. Granted there seem to be a few whiners in the testimony section, there are still MORE which tell of some pretty bad "abuse".

I think Coonskinner knows the woman. He didn't seem to think to highly of her.

Barb · #4 01-13-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherri

I just went to the Spiritual Abuse website that Lois Somebody oversees. Does anyone know anything about her or this site? I have never been on it before, and honestly, I don't understand what she's trying to accomplish. No matter how much it says that it's not bashing UPC, it seems that that's the agenda there.

I know and understand that there is major abuse in some situations, but there is major abuse in any organization or denomination. People are people, some good and some bad. If you choose to leave a group (like we did), I think you should just leave and not rehash all the things you think are evil about it. What is the point of "exposing" things ten years down the road? Sorry, but I just think this is wrong.

Like I've said many times, the UPC brought me to Jesus. If it were not for my heritage, I might not have the privilege of knowing Him. Were there things that were wrong? Sure! Do we do everything correctly now? NOOOOOOOOO! We are all still learning.

Just my thoughts for the day!

Sis. C...God bless your heart!! This is one of the many things that endears you so to those still onboard the Mothership...you respect where you came from.

As for Lois...I knew her through the old FCF (she was Sarge on the old board, and is signed up here I think).

Anyway, she read some of my posts and thinking I was a nice enough sort, she asked me to write an article for her site. My piece could be about anything I chose to write about and she would not edit.

She remained true to her word, and even wrote a nice note at the end of the article.

That being said, Lois has some issues with the org...some I know about and some I don't. But I think she opened the site and her forum for people to express their hurts...you could be right, but if there was or is an agenda, I am not aware of it.

I am not trying to speak for her or defend her, just to give you info that I know.

I haven't been there in ages and don't know what all is there now...

Sherri · #5 01-13-2008, 04:51 PM

Well, I do remember "Sarge". I didn't know that was her.

I guess I still don't understand the point behind the whole thing though. Maybe I've just been gone for so long that I don't need to rehash it all.

Sarah · #6 01-13-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherri

Well, I do remember "Sarge". I didn't know that was her.

I guess I still don't understand the point behind the whole thing though. Maybe I've just been gone for so long that I don't need to rehash it all.

Sherri, after having read your posts for quite a while now, I can truly say that you and your family are some of the ones I wish had stayed with us!

For the life of me, I can't see what good that forum does. It's actually rather offensive to those of us who have been in and loved the UPCI for all these years.

StMark · #7 01-13-2008, 05:47 PM

I'm gonna shoot Lois an email and tell her ya'll are over here running her down

pelathais · #8 01-13-2008, 05:59 PM

Some thoughts:

1. There really is a great amount of diversity in the UPC and among Apostolics in general. However for the "outsider" the diversity isn't all that readily discerned. For the uninitiated it's hard to tell a good pastor from a "dictator" without a couple of years of contact. For this reason we do have a lot of people who come into and out of our churches with some very negative experiences.

As Sherri pointed out, this can be said of virtually any group as well.

2. Reading some of the "testimonies" on some of these abuse sites seems to show that the pastors who abused were also in trouble with the UPC. That point is seldom made. We usually get defensive and "lash out" at criticism (everybody does) and many times we miss an opportunity heal a wound until its "ten years down the road."

3. Wisdom is gained through experience. If you can gain some wisdom from someone else's experience then you're a little bit ahead of the game.

4. UPC churches in many areas operate an evangelism tactic of "bait and switch." They start with an "open door" policy where "everyone's welcome." "New converts" who don't practice the outward appearance standards (someone who looks like Sherri, for example) are allowed to participate in the church's activities, often with the hope that they "get it" through osmosis or something. Then when the church starts to look "charismatic," pressure is applied to the pastor who usually caves in and too many times goes too far or is too harsh in trying to get the folks "cleaned up."

This results in many of the "negative experiences" that you read about. This is also why UPC standards are "cultic" whereas Mennonite standards are just "old timey." We often try to pretend that we're something we're not.

People are genuinely shocked to find out that the friendly little church they had joined is really filled with people who are now inexplicitly angry at them because mama wore a pair of slacks down to the WalMart.

5. I suppose an example of this would be AFF in the last couple of weeks. We had to "weed out" some "compromisers" and now we post a lot about how those "compromisers" are "tearing down the UPC," and etc. Asking for a link to such "tearing down" is answered with sullen silence. More false accusations and puzzling comments like "see I told you that's how those kind of people are..." follow. It's the times honored mechanism of "shoring up the base." No one even tried to prove that these charges of "tearing down the UPC" are true or not. It's enough just to say it to rally likeminded people with a similar disregard for truth.

Again, if you ask for help in seeing that way no answers are forth coming. But if you don't just shut up and play along, then you are suspect.

I've split this post/essay into two parts...

pelathais · #9 01-13-2008, 06:00 PM

6. Sherri, is this why you bring up Lois Gibson's very well known site now? Are you trying to garner comments like Barb's to deflect from the fact that you have failed to "get with the program?"

Lois has been out there for years and is consistently among the top Google searches for "United Pentecostal Church." Further, "Sarge" has been a main stay since the old FCF days. She doesn't proselytize and I've never seen her ever be antagonistic. But she has never made a secret about who she is and where her web site is.

Many other posters to AFF, NFCF and FCF have had links to her website in their sig lines. Recently Steve Epley complained that AFF was beginning to sound like "Lois' site" because of the "easy believism" and other inaccurate characterizations. This was followed with similar comments on other threads.

Let's not play the "get along just to get along" game with eeach other. We should really be trying to lift one another closer to God. From my negative experiences in the UPC and among Apostolics in general I have observed that the various peer pressure tactics combined with the "code of silence on complaints" and the "angry shunning" actually remove Apostolics from the presence of God.

If you've been around Pentecost for at least a decade outside of the core regions, you have seen how what I have described has destroyed entire congregations as well as countless individual lives.

Finally, I remember a recent comment by an AFF poster when he described the state/district of Kansas as being "small" and "not contributing a whole lot of money to headquarters..." I had to laugh. This man actually played along with a very aggressive program led by a late KS D.S. that was designed to keep the Kansas District small and to keep they contributions to "headquarters" very small.

You really have to laugh at such duplicity- except it's not real duplicity: the man actually believes what he says and can't figure out why trying to keep a "clean district" has resulted in the virtual demise of that district. Just can't figure out why revival has largely passed them by.
Just like the rest of the UPC can't figure out what it will take to bring "real revival." They know what it takes. It's just that they will resist revival until their daying day.

pelathais · #10 01-13-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah

Sherri, after having read your posts for quite a while now, I can truly say that you and your family are some of the ones I wish had stayed with us!

For the life of me, I can't see what good that forum does. It's actually rather offensive to those of us who have been in and loved the UPCI for all these years.

Do you also wish that the UPC had dropped the policies that caused folks like this to leave?

I obviously don't speak for Sherri, or Brother Cupples. In fact, I'm probably making Sherri mad by pushing this. But Sarah, how sincere are you in what you say?