Restorationism, No Unbroken Line: Shaw & Bernard

DAII · #1 06-25-2010, 06:54 AM

It is becoming more apparent that Bernard and Shaw believe similarly to the Mormons, JW's, that in their view of primitivism or restorationism, .... we find a teaching that states that in the last 2000 years, after about 100 AD, the Church devolved and then evolved to complete Truth once again ... just in the last century or so.

Chalfant, Arnold, even Paul Mooney and Evangelist Duane Williams .... take notice .... no remnant???.

Did as some interpret it ... the GATES OF HELL PREVAIL AGAINST THE CHURCH?

From the New Life Church of Austin:
05/05/10 | Wednesday:

"Restoring the Apostles' Doctrine," Pastor Shaw | audio

Handout

Find it amazing that we are literally told by Shaw to cut out the last 2000 years and simply match our 2010 experience with the first century.

Shall we do that in all instances .... including church governance?

DAII · #2 06-25-2010, 07:03 AM

What is still a mystery to me .... is how restorationism differs from "light doctrine" ... as men like JR Ensey have rejected "light doctrine" but has apparently embraced restorationist theology in some ways ...

Both believe that the Church gradually embraced increasing light of revelation through the centuries as Truth was restored .... with the exception that men like Ensey believe those not in full Truth as he sees it .... ultimately perish ....

While the pioneering leadership like AD Urshan, Frank Ewart, Clyde Haney, GT Haywood, Dave Gray, SG Norris, WT Witherspoon, et al .... do not but believe rather that others are saved, or granted eternal life, in the light they were given.

Of course, DB and Shaw never tip their hand if they think the rest of Christianity .... historically is LOST.

Conveniently, glossed over. And say and apologize what you want DB .... that's cultic in the definition of many

Apocrypha · #3 06-25-2010, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII

What is still a mystery to me .... is how restorationism differs from "light doctrine" ... as men like JR Ensey have rejected "light doctrine" but has apparently embraced restorationist theology in some ways ...

Both believe that the Church gradually embraced increasing light of revelation through the centuries as Truth was restored .... with the exception that men like Ensey believe those not in full Truth as he sees it .... ultimately perish ....

While the pioneering leadership like AD Urshan, Frank Ewart, Clyde Haney, GT Haywood, Dave Gray, SG Norris, WT Witherspoon, et al .... do not but rather saved, or granted eternal life, in the light they were given.

Of course, DB and Shaw never tip their hand if they think the rest of Christianity .... historically is LOST.

Conveniently, glossed over. And say and apologize what you want DB .... that's cultic in the definition of many

SG Norris taught that there were 3 categories. My mom grew up in the ABI church and most of my family went to ABI... i was the odd duck since I went to IBC.

SGN taught there were holy, righteous and wicked.

holy were full 3 step + holy lifestyle till death/resurrection they go to heaven/new jerusalem

righteous were those who walked in their righteousness they knew towards God... they go to the new earth

the wicked burn

it was a advanced teaching he gave to abi students and folks from his church, usually with some kind of Larkin chart since the man loved Clarence Larkins Dispensational Truth and his book on Daniel

DAII · #4 06-25-2010, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

SG Norris taught that there were 3 categories. My mom grew up in the ABI church and most of my family went to ABI... i was the odd duck since I went to IBC.

SGN taught there were holy, righteous and wicked.

holy were full 3 step + holy lifestyle till death/resurrection they go to heaven/new jerusalem

righteous were those who walked in their righteousness they knew towards God... they go to the new earth

the wicked burn

it was a advanced teaching he gave to abi students and folks from his church, usually with some kind of Larkin chart since the man loved Clarence Larkins Dispensational Truth and his book on Daniel

Heretical teaching.

Wonder if other alums like Stoneking believe this?

Apocrypha · #5 06-25-2010, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII

Heretical teaching.

Wonder if other alums like Stoneking believe this?

I would imagine it comes from the Long Dark Teatime of the Soul that comes eventually when you realize that nearly every christian resource and song that you use comes from folks going to the lake of fire. Its how you as a minister deal with friends from other faith traditions that you meet at local functions who SEEM to be as Christian as you.

Its for and the Baptist pastor across town you enjoy talking theology with. Its for granny who was a lifelong and faithful Methodist. Its for the guy who you emergency baptized in a hospital room with a pitcher of water and who didn't have time to tarry for the Holy Spirit the right way in your understanding.

DAII · #6 06-25-2010, 08:55 AM

Shaw describes the restorationist impluse of the Protestant Reformation:

http://www.newlifeupc.org/wp-content...eformation.mp3

DAII · #7 06-25-2010, 08:58 AM

The Pentecostal Movement according to Shaw through the restorationist lens:

http://www.newlifeupc.org/wp-content...l-movement.mp3

The ultimate Truth of the UPC and Apostolic doctrine according to Shaw is not the Fundamental doctrine agreed to at the merger but rather the 3 step New Birth

Sam · #8 06-25-2010, 09:51 AM

I only went to ABI one year. That was 1956-1957. He taught restorationism i.e. that the visible church went into darkness and tradition and then over the years God granted light to different individuals and groups finally restoring Apostolic Christianity in 1914 with Jesus' name baptism.

He also taught what he called "holy, righteous, and wicked." This teaching was that the three steps of Acts 2:38 were necessary to get into the Church and the Church would be raptured. He also included Abram and others from the Old Testament in the rapture based on their being filled or moved upon by the Spirit. He taught that at the Great White Throne Judgment, all the dead who had not been raptured (Revelation 4, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) or resurrected in the first resurrection (Revelation 20:4-6). According to his teaching the Great White Throne judgment happened after the millennium and is mentioned in Matthew 25:31-46, Revelation 20:11-15, and Daniel 12:1-3). Everyone would be judged by how they walked in the light that they had and some would go into everlasting blessedness and some into everlasting punishment.

Bishop G.T. Haywood taught something similar to the righteous, holy, and wicked in his book on the Resurrection. I was also taught that by Bro. F.E. Curts in Cincinnati, OH. He was the Chairman of the Ohio District of the UPC and considered a Bible Teacher. I have also seen similar teaching in Bro. Clyde Haney's book on Revelation.

Aquila · #9 06-25-2010, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII

It is becoming more apparent that Bernard and Shaw believe similarly to the Mormons, JW's, that in their view of primitivism or restorationism, .... a teaching that states that in the last 2000 years, after about 100 AD, the Church devolved and then evolved to complete Truth once again ... just in the last century or so.

Chalfant, Arnold, even Paul Mooney and Evangelist Duane Williams .... take notice .... no remnant???.

Did as some interpret it ... the GATES OF HELL PREVAIL AGAINST THE CHURCH?

If truth was restored to the church (revived), how can it say that the gates of hell prevailed? That’s like declaring victory or defeat before the war is over. The war isn’t over. And the Apostolic revival still has a long ways to go before it returns to her biblical beauty and simplicity.

Quote:

From the New Life Church of Austin:
05/05/10 | Wednesday:

"Restoring the Apostles' Doctrine," Pastor Shaw | audio

Handout

Find it amazing that we are literally told by Shaw to cut out the last 2000 years and simply match our 2010 experience with the first century.

Shall we do that in all instances .... including church governance?

The UPCI has become an old wineskin. Those within the movement pray for new wine…but it will not come to the UPCI. The UPCI can’t handle what God desires to do with her. She means well…but she’s lost in the wilderness.

Most Apostolic organizations today are merely reflections of man’s attempt to organize and lead the church. Bylaws, rules, regulations, that govern local pastors abound. Many organizations have rules that are almost oppressive. Many Apostolic organizations are top heavy, iron fisted, bureaucracies bent on gaining more and more financial contributions. And most of us know what it’s like to see pastors of the same city at a conference who will not even say hello to one another because they view one another as competition in the franchise. That’s what churches have become, religious franchises.

The church of the Bible allowed each body to be autonomous, governed by a very few broad principles of doctrine. Also each body wasn’t bent on building castles and campuses. Instead they met in humble homes, in fields, markets, and when persecution hit, they met in catacombs. Each “assembly” was governed by three elders who spoke as prophets in the assembly. These taught the assembly doctrine and the ways of Jesus. If someone attending the assembly wished to contribute to the teaching, in discussion style, the three elders would allow that brother to speak and address the group. This way, all were able to prophesy.

Our care group systems have more in common with the biblical New Testament church than our regular “church services”, which are primarily modeled after John Calvin’s order of service.

Aquila · #10 06-25-2010, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII

What is still a mystery to me .... is how restorationism differs from "light doctrine" ... as men like JR Ensey have rejected "light doctrine" but has apparently embraced restorationist theology in some ways ...

Both believe that the Church gradually embraced increasing light of revelation through the centuries as Truth was restored .... with the exception that men like Ensey believe those not in full Truth as he sees it .... ultimately perish ....

While the pioneering leadership like AD Urshan, Frank Ewart, Clyde Haney, GT Haywood, Dave Gray, SG Norris, WT Witherspoon, et al .... do not but believe rather that others are saved, or granted eternal life, in the light they were given.

Of course, DB and Shaw never tip their hand if they think the rest of Christianity .... historically is LOST.

Conveniently, glossed over. And say and apologize what you want DB .... that's cultic in the definition of many

As with most positions there are different opinions among those who hold a given position. Some do believe in “light doctrine”. Others believe that the there was a remnant within the institutional church of any given age that were saved.

Those who hold to the restorationist position typically believe that the church was restored by a series of revivals as listed below:

Lutheran Church - AD 1517: Saw - Justification by faith...

Presbyterian Church - Ad 1536: Saw - Communion as a Memorial...

Congregational Church - AD 1580: Saw - Separation of Church and State...

Baptist Church - AD 1609: Saw - Water Baptism by Immersion...

Methodist Church - AD 1739: Saw - Personal Holiness...

Christian Church - AD 1820: Saw - Baptism for Remission of Sins...

Trinitarian Pentecostalism - AD 1900: Saw - Baptism of the Holy Ghost - Evidence: Speaking with Tongues as in Acts chapter 2 on the day of Pentecost…

Restoration of Apostles Doctrine from 33 A.D. - AD 1914
The revelation of God in Christ (ONENESS), and the truth of baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins…

While many Unbroken Line Apostolics are praying for revival within the movement, Restorationist Apostolics believe that WE ARE THE REVIVAL God has sent to Christendom at large.

What will the next great wave of revival bring???