Oh, you're right. Jesus is the express image of God's person, I think it meant. Right?
OK, so God is a person. Is Jesus also a person? Heb 1:3 says he is the image of God's person. Do you think that means Jesus is the same person as God?
Yes, one person. Again, it is GOD we are dealing with. God can do what we cannot. If Jesus was God and a person apart from the Father, the scriptures would have stated something very plainly about that. In fact, there would have been scads of chapters on just that! It would have been so huge a change from the understood concept of the Old Testament. But all we have describing t is that Jesus is the Word, the Word is God and the Word manifested in flesh.
He is in FLESH everything that God is. A translation of God in flesh.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Your point is, in everyday, constant speech, people don't routinely greet and bless one another in the same manner as the letters to the sundry churches. I get it. And it's true, the average saint does not do so.
And I often do not do so. But sometimes I do. And sometimes I speak the same words of greeting, or, when saying goodbye, I sometimes use the same words of benediction as found in the letters.
Is it everyday, all the time usage? No. But it does happen. Enough to justify/validate my comments in this post.
It's uncommon and to set it up as a test of validity to Oneness theology is a fallacy.
That is my point..as I said I never see Jfrog typing that way nor any of the other trinitarians I encounter
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Prax, you have always maintained that Jesus and God were one person, but not one being? You have told me countless times when explaining Jesus that Jesus was two beings, one human being and another divine being. Why because a being is a person with a nature and since Jesus was one person with two natures well I think you know the rest... What's with the change in phraseology?
No I maintained Jesus and the Father are One in Being (Divine) but that Jesus has a distinct human nature and functions as though he were a separate Human being.
And I certainly would never say Jesus is two SEPARATE beings
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Wrong, trinitarians use the phrases found in those salutations or ones like them much more than oneness. They will say God raised his Son from the dead. Oneness will say God raised himself from the dead. They will say thank God for sending us his Son Jesus Christ to die on the cross. Oneness will say thank God for coming himself to die on the cross. If you reread the salutations and compare their speech and phrases to those found within you will find that trinitarians speech more closely resembles the salutations than oneness.
Not with me. I've heard them QUOTE those verses to try to prove a point, but as part of their vernacular, no.
BTW A Trinitarian CAN actually say God raised Himself. Jesus is God and they often quote Jn 2 when arguing with JWs
And they can also say God came himself. They do actually believe Jesus was God incarnate.
But as I have already said I have no problem saying God sent His Son and I have.
It doesn't normally come up in Oneness conversations with non OPs because you guys are asking us to explain our views and so our conversations are usually technical
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Until oneness believers today begin regularly speaking like the above when talking about God and Jesus Christ then something is biblically amiss with their beliefs about God and Jesus Christ.
Right before Easter I preached a message about Christ's exaltation and went through Acts showing many examples that the Apostle's central theme was the glorification of God's Son. That's what they preached.
Afterward my pastor commended me for not being afraid to use the plain language of the Bible.
I am amazed so few understand what oneness really proposes to have to ask these questions. And yet we get all these reasons for saying oneness is wrong. You do not even understand oneness if you think these points prove it wrong.
Folks, please, get educated about an issue before you shoot it down. lol
"God rose his son from the dead"
"God we give thanks to you and to our Lord Jesus Christ"?
"God has called us into the fellowship of his son Jesus Christ"?
There you heard me, now stop your nonsense and go away..
The other day I preached n the fact that God has forgiven us for Christ's sake.
Think of it. This statement you made incises people to gasp in shock at such a silly thought. such as Jesus being His own God. But the flaw of logic is that it puts the issue on the level of one of us claiming we are our own God, which is agreeably crazy. But the flaw here is that none of us are in actuality God. So, from God's perspective, the comparison which incites the shock is absurd. God can do far more than what we humans can do. Starting out as a human being makes it impossible for me to be my own God. But the one actual and true God starting out as God can indeed manifest in flesh and be the God of that manifestation. Where is the flaw of logic there?
You made the same logical flaw people make when they gasp and say we believe Jesus prayed to Himself. That would be wild if we proposed it was not GOD who manifested in flesh causing need for that manifestation to pray to deity, as though godhood was not inherently involved as in any given human being like you or me.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Linear Mode
