If Salvation is a absolute free gift.. - Page 9

onefaith2 · #81 03-24-2011, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

We owe nothing. But, when a man truly understands what God has done for him then he will want to give God something in return (not to pay some kind of debt that he could never pay) but as a thank note to God.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

We do these things for God because of what he did for us but we aren't in debt so that we must do them. We can stumble and we can fall. We can even mess up presenting our bodies as a living sacrifice unto God. If these things were a debt then surely stumbling and falling and messing up would be out of the question because we would never be able to get all the debt paid for through all our stumbling and falling and messing up.

This doesn't sound like someone who can't accept God's work though Christ at the cross

mfblume · #82 03-24-2011, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I love that verse.

I read it as, what you are seeing is the work of God, so that you will believe on Him whom God has sent. He works, we choose to believe or not.

You do not see it as Jesus providing them the answer for what work they requested, that being faith?

jfrog · #83 03-24-2011, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

This doesn't sound like someone who can't accept God's work though Christ at the cross

LUKE2447 · #84 03-24-2011, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I agree with that, so why say I am wrong? My point is and always has been that the works we do by way of receiving God's righteousness and fulfilling our part afterwards do not in and of themselves save us. And when we say salvation is absolutely free, that does not mean there are no strings attached by way of us living responsibly like you seem to think it does. NO matter how much obedience is required, the moment and very SECOND I was saved before I did any works I was ready for glory. THAT is the issue as I see it in speaking of salvation fully free.

Again words must be clarified. To say my salvation does not depend on works is not a complete reality. What works? What is the context of what i meant by works. To say judgment in the end is not based on works goes against so much scripture and jewish literature is beyond my even arguing. God's justice system is legal and he determines by witness. He did so with Abraham and he does with us. Faith is contextual by it's nature. It has content and is relative to what is said.

mfblume · #85 03-24-2011, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Quote:

...the moment and very SECOND I was saved before I did any works I was ready for glory...

Again words must be clarified. To say my salvation does not depend on works is not a complete reality. What works? What is the context of what i meant by works. To say judgment in the end is not based on works goes against so much scripture and jewish literature is beyond my even arguing. God's justice system is legal and he determines by witness. He did so with Abraham and he does with us. Faith is contextual by it's nature. It has content and is relative to what is said.

DO you agree with what I emboldened?

onefaith2 · #86 03-24-2011, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

Just telling the truth.. I couldn't have said anything better myself!

onefaith2 · #87 03-24-2011, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Again words must be clarified. To say my salvation does not depend on works is not a complete reality. What works? What is the context of what i meant by works. To say judgment in the end is not based on works goes against so much scripture and jewish literature is beyond my even arguing. God's justice system is legal and he determines by witness. He did so with Abraham and he does with us. Faith is contextual by it's nature. It has content and is relative to what is said.

Luke do you believe that when a person repents, gets baptized, and is filled with the Holy Ghost, that should they die the moment after that happens they will go to heaven?

Not having any chance to do any works?

onefaith2 · #88 03-24-2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

You do not see it as Jesus providing them the answer for what work they requested, that being faith?

No not in the context I'm reading it in.

Jesus did the works, said what he said about the Father; all of this that we may choose to believe on Him.

mfblume · #89 03-24-2011, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

No not in the context I'm reading it in.

Jesus did the works, said what he said about the Father; all of this that we may choose to believe on Him.

I think you're reading the context incorrectly. But they just asked him what work does he recommend them commit, since he just stated they laboured for meat that perishes and should labour for meat that does not perish.

John 6:27-29 KJV Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. (28) Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Modern language:

John 6:27-29 CEV Don't work for food that spoils. Work for food that gives eternal life. The Son of Man will give you this food, because God the Father has given him the right to do so." (28) "What exactly does God want us to do?" the people asked. (29) Jesus answered, "God wants you to have faith in the one he sent."

John 6:27-29 GNB Do not work for food that spoils; instead, work for the food that lasts for eternal life. This is the food which the Son of Man will give you, because God, the Father, has put his mark of approval on him." (28) So they asked him, "What can we do in order to do what God wants us to do?" (29) Jesus answered, "What God wants you to do is to believe in the one he sent."

onefaith2 · #90 03-24-2011, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I think you're reading the context incorrectly. But they just asked him what work does he recommend them commit, since he just stated they laboured for meat that perishes and should labour for meat that does not perish.

John 6:27-29 KJV Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. (28) Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Modern language:

John 6:27-29 CEV Don't work for food that spoils. Work for food that gives eternal life. The Son of Man will give you this food, because God the Father has given him the right to do so." (28) "What exactly does God want us to do?" the people asked. (29) Jesus answered, "God wants you to have faith in the one he sent."

John 6:27-29 GNB Do not work for food that spoils; instead, work for the food that lasts for eternal life. This is the food which the Son of Man will give you, because God, the Father, has put his mark of approval on him." (28) So they asked him, "What can we do in order to do what God wants us to do?" (29) Jesus answered, "What God wants you to do is to believe in the one he sent."

Thats good and definitely fits the bill. I think I was more referring to Jesus' works and teachings that enabled people to consider believing in Him.

In this context you brought out, its definitely saying that God wants us to believe and that is a work of sorts.